I just stumbled across this thread in which Greg G, Nathan, and Stef speculate as to why FDR is so controversial, when the "SAME" theories are discussed in "Psychology Today".

Right Greg. I dunno.

Could it be that the majority Fdr members are NOT discussing with parents, friends, or family members? They are not going to joint therapy? They are simply defooing and isolating themselves, "living their values", with no consideration for anyone other than themselves? But, then again, according to their talks with their MECOsystems, that is what they should do, because SELF is what matters more than anything else. Who cares about hurting anyone else, right? Could it be that they live in isolation without real, in person relationships, but only have "true" friendships with others in the online FDR community? Could it be that many are unemployed, and some are homeless? Could it be that they live their lives in accordance with what one man dictates in his books, podcasts, and on his website? I don't think this is mentioned in the "Psychology Today" article, or did I miss something?

Right Greg. I dunno.

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Forums » Topics of Freedomain » Psychology » Why is this stuff so controversial?Latest post 07-24-2009 6:53 AM by Nathan. 5 replies.
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07-24-2009 3:03 AM

GregG


Joined on 02-21-2006
Raleigh, NC
Posts 11,826

Why is this stuff so controversial?
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So, I'm reading an article on intimacy in relationships, over at Psychology Today, and I see this:



The first decision we make about a relationship is the partner we choose. Whom we fall in love with determines the level of intimacy in our relationships, according to Ayala Malach Pines, Ph.D., who heads the behavioral sciences in management program at Ben-Gurion University in Israel. We often choose partners who remind us of significant people from our childhood--often our parents--and we set out to recreate the patterns of our childhood. Let's look at an example:

. . .

Tara's unresolved intimacy issues complement Abe's. For example, one partner (often the woman) will fight to break down defenses and create more intimacy while the other (often the man) will withdraw and create distance. So the "dance of intimacy" follows: If the woman gets too close, the man pulls back. If he moves too far away, she pursues, and so on.

To achieve greater intimacy, the partners must overcome the anxiety that compels them to take their respective parts in that dance. In the example, Tara needs to control her abandonment anxiety and not pursue Abe when he withdraws, and Abe needs to control his engulfment anxiety when Tara pursues him and not withdraw. Working to overcome these anxieties is an opportunity to resolve childhood issues and can be a major healing experience for both partners.

We all bring defenses to relationships, and, unfortunately, it is often these defenses that spell trouble. We develop our defenses and negative beliefs in childhood....

...

A secondary defense that helps preserve the fantasy bond is, according to Firestone and Catlett, "the voice." All people tend to carry on some form of internal dialogue within themselves as though another person were talking to them: reprimanding them, denouncing them, divulging negative information about others, and so on.

In intimate relationships, both individuals may be listening to the dictates of their respective voices. Unfortunately, these only create more defensiveness. Both partners may use rationalizations promoted by "the voice" to ward off loving responses from the other and justify their distancing behavior.

. . .

Here is an example of someone using voice therapy. Sheryl is in a four-year relationship and was starting to have problems. She and her partner Mark came to therapy for help, and they progressed through these four steps of voice therapy over the course of treatment. Following is a glimpse into Sheryl's process.

Formulate the problem each individual perceives is limiting his or her satisfaction within the relationship.

Sheryl: The feeling I have is that I've always liked Mark, but lately I feel like I can't stand it when he's nice to me. I feel like I have a mean streak.

Therapist: In response to his liking you.

Sheryl: Yes.

Verbalize self-critical thoughts and negative perceptions of the other in the form of the voice, and let go of the feelings associated with them.

Therapist: What are you telling yourself about the relationship?

Sheryl: It's like, 'Don't show him anything, don't show him you like him.' I tell myself, 'Just don't show it, you're such a sucker if you show it.' When he's vulnerable I just want to squash him. And it's for no reason except for he's being sweet.

Develop insight into the origins of the voice and make connections between past experience and present conflicts.

Sheryl: I've seen myself be like my mother millions of times. In previous relationships I've acted so much like her, I didn't even know it. I saw her as being a really critical person, she was very critical of my father. And she would be mean to him. Sometimes I act like that myself.



Alter behaviors and communications in a direction that counteracts the dictates of the voice.

Therapist: So the hope is for you to hang in there and to tolerate the anxiety of giving up these defenses and the fantasized connection you have with your mother. If you do sweat it out then you'll be able to have more in your life. It takes a lot of courage to go through that process but it's really worth it.

Sheryl: I feel like it would make me sad, too, because I would feel a lot. When I have that other point of view, I feel big and mean. And when I just let things be, and don't act in ways to push Mark away, I feel like a soft, sweet person.

. . .

In therapy sessions, both partners reveal negative thoughts and attitudes toward himself or herself and each other. In this way, they share each other's individual psychotherapy. In tracing back the source of their self-attacks and cynical views to early family interactions, they gain perspective on each other's problems and feel more compassion for their mates as well as themselves.



So, this stuff gets said over at PT, and nobody says boo.

We've seen the truth repeated in any number of venues, and in any number of different ways, in the recent past, and it always seems to slip under the radar for most people. But I guess, putting all those puzzle peices together in one place like this, is like connecting all the parts of a psychic bomb together.


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07-24-2009 5:25 AM In reply to

Nathan


Joined on 03-23-2006
Houston, TX
Posts 11,867

Re: Why is this stuff so controversial?
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I'm not sure any of that is what they're considering controversial, it's that we would want to break from those first "relationships" that caused and continue to perpetuate all the hurt and problems mentioned.




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07-24-2009 5:50 AM In reply to

Stefan Molyneux


Joined on 02-17-2006
Mississauga, Canada
Posts 16,735
Re: Why is this stuff so controversial?
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Remember, it's not controversial for 99.999% of FDR listeners...


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07-24-2009 5:55 AM In reply to

Nathan


Joined on 03-23-2006
Houston, TX
Posts 11,867

Re: Why is this stuff so controversial?
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Also, it is that all those theories in the abstract are fine and dandy, but that we would want to act on them by actually LIVING those values.




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07-24-2009 6:16 AM In reply to

GregG


Joined on 02-21-2006
Raleigh, NC
Posts 11,826

Re: Why is this stuff so controversial?
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Nathan:

Also, it is that all those theories in the abstract are fine and dandy, but that we would want to act on them by actually LIVING those values.



Well, the article actually goes on to suggest discussing the issues with friends and extended family for perspective - which is sort of a step in the right direction, re: living the values. It doesn't go as far as stepping through the outcomes and choices from those conversations, but that's what therapy and good sound advice from friends is for, right?

Different forms of therapy were even suggested in the article. Sounds familiar...


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07-24-2009 6:53 AM In reply to

Nathan


Joined on 03-23-2006
Houston, TX
Posts 11,867

Re: Why is this stuff so controversial?
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Right Greg, I dunno.




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