Children and adults

ExyPhylo · Number of posts: 1180 Registration date: 2007-12-12

ok the more I think about this ... I can make no sense in putting a 7 inch penis in a young boys anus or a young girls vagina. After all that is part of sexuallity. We are not specifically saying mutual agreed fondelling etc. I get the sexuality is not evil...thang... but a predator is a predator and I never once had a hankering as a child to be painfully penetrated etc.
Nuff said....

Phlogiston · Subject: Re: Children and adults Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:42 pm

Van Halen said it best when they wrote Hot for Teacher. I would have condidered myself lucky.
Yet a judge should not get involved in anything where there could be a conflict of interest and an adult in that situation who wants to do it must have a conflict of interest.
At some age the child is responsible enough to judge themselves but until that time the responsibility is on the adult and they must decline to judge because of conflict of interest.

ExyPhylo · Number of posts: 1180 Registration date: 2007-12-12

NonEntity wrote:

I'm refering to human beings. I find that numeric age is an artificial construct and does not apply. That does not mean that I don't support good sense, but I find that a consciencious application of the question "is it voluntary" is all that need be applied. Children are people, too.
- NonE

When a human being fully comprehends what "voluntary" means..and Is ...there may be some truth in that...

NonEntity · Number of posts: 2598 Registration date: 2007-11-08

ExyPhylo wrote:

I wonder when we are going to say anyone can drive – give a 7 year old a license(even if he can't hit the brakes or see the road)

This is a reply to the above, and it is made before reading any further posts you have made. This has been stewing in my head since I read it and it seems to me to be the key issue, and so I am pointing it out.

The entire inference in your statement that I quote above is that our lives are not ours, that they some how belong to others from whom we must seek permission.

I find this a bizarre (and yet most common) idea. Do you seek a permit to breath? Must someone give you a license befiore you are allowed to shift from crawling to walking? How about from walking around your home to walking over to the neighbor's house? Who is it that has this power to decide what you may and may not peacefully do? And where did they get this power from?

I see no difference between your assertion that one must ask some higher power for a license to drive than to ask this same power for a license to read, or to use a knife, or even maybe to sleep. Just think, you might have unseemly dreams and "we" couldnt' have that now, could we? At least not without proper authorization.

Do you grasp the nature of the problem here where someone else is granted authority to make your life choices for you?

Who are you, or anyone else, to decide with whom I choose to engage in voluntary concentual sex with, or whether or not I'm "allowed" to walk down the sidewalk, or read a book, or post on this forum?

- NonE

NonEntity · Number of posts: 2598 Registration date: 2007-11-08

ExyPhylo wrote:

ok the more I think about this ... I can make no sense in putting a 7 inch penis in a young boys anus or a young girls vagina. After all that is part of sexuallity. We are not specifically saying mutual agreed fondelling etc. I get the sexuality is not evil...thang... but a predator is a predator and I never once had a hankering as a child to be painfully penetrated etc.
Nuff said....

This is unworthy of even commenting upon and so I simply point this out. This is not rational conversation it is hateful fear mongering.

- NonE

NonEntity · Number of posts: 2598 Registration date: 2007-11-08

Phlogiston wrote:

At some age the child is responsible enough to judge themselves but until that time the responsibility is on the adult and they must decline to judge because of conflict of interest.

Yes, but then, who is going to decide that age, and when? And if you grant someone that authority over your life and your choices, how can you pretend to take it back, and how can you pretend that you are capable now when you weren't then? That is the situation we are in now, where those who want to dictate and control others are using this line of reasoning to "protect us" from not wearing seat belts, or eating too much fast food, etc.

I don't find any reasonable argument for dictating another's choices. There is something to be said for preventing a toddler from walking out onto the ledge of a 10 story apartment, but I'm hard pressed to go very much beyond that point.

- NonE

ExyPhylo · Number of posts: 1180 Registration date: 2007-12-12

NonEntity wrote:

This is unworthy of even commenting upon and so I simply point this out. This is not rational conversation it is hateful fear mongering.

It is my opinion NonE . It is not hateful fear mongering any more or less than the examples you may use against things you don’t approve of, are offended by or believe in. It may be incorrect in your line of thinking or your intent in the context of your posts.
Perhaps I overreacted and have something to learn .....
However graphic it is, it is a reality of the subject of pedophilia.

As for the license example … I have a license or permit if you will; it is part of my everyday reality and I don’t see that changing any time soon.
Perhaps I should have stated give a 7 year old a chain saw, it too is too large and powerful for an average 7 year old to handle.
I was not referring to permits per say, I was referring to the child's capabilities based on their size and knowledge… my concern is in their ability to discern for themselves what is harmful to themselves and others.

I won’t tell you anything you have to do…however a child in my care or line of vision…who is not capable of handling a car or managing the weight of a chainsaw…or an adult for that matter…won’t be voluntarily choosing any of them.

Phlogiston · Subject: Re: Children and adults Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:24 am

NonEntity wrote:

I find this a bizarre (and yet most common) idea. Do you seek a permit to breath? Must someone give you a license befiore you are allowed to shift from crawling to walking? How about from walking around your home to walking over to the neighbor's house? Who is it that has this power to decide what you may and may not peacefully do? And where did they get this power from?

- NonE

The problem lies in the hurt and destruction that can be caused by reading vs. driving a car. Can you peacefully drive? I can read drunk as hell all I want. I can drive a car drunk as hell too but theres a good chance that I will hurt another if I do the second. This is because my judgement is impaired.
It does bring a good question up though. Who should judge? We can't judge ourselves and no one else should have that authority.
A man in denver decided he could shoot his gun at a telephone pole last new years despite laws. He missed and his bullet went through a wall and through a woman and into her granddaughter 500 feet away. They both died. Should he have been able to judge for himself? The problem being, Can we judge when we are being peaceful?

NonEntity · Number of posts: 2598 Registration date: 2007-11-08

I say this:

NonEntity wrote:

I find this preoccupation with the age of a sexual being to be bizarre and scary. As far as I'm concerned, as long as the activity is voluntary, what does it matter the age of the participants? And if it is not voluntary, how does the age of the participants factor in at all?

and you reply with this...

ExyPhylo wrote:

ok the more I think about this ... I can make no sense in putting a 7 inch penis in a young boys anus or a young girls vagina. After all that is part of sexuallity. We are not specifically saying mutual agreed fondelling etc. I get the sexuality is not evil...thang... but a predator is a predator and I never once had a hankering as a child to be painfully penetrated etc.
Nuff said....

If you don't consider that hateful fear mongering I don't know how else to put it.

It most certainly is not thoughtful discussion regarding the nature of individual choice, rights and responsibilities and the concept of personal sovereignty.

- NonE

ExyPhylo · Number of posts: 1180 Registration date: 2007-12-12

You have reiterated that twice now.
That too is hateful judgemental bs.

NonE you have failed to set any kind of parameter and for the lack of that are ~~asking~~ telling me to say an infant, 2yr old and 6yr old (human beings) have the right to do as he voluntarily chooses. Whether it means standing on the ledge of a 11 story building, (you draw the line at 10) or playing a chainsaw and equating ~~reading a book~~ eating pop tarts with ...driving a car.

There is nothing wrong throwing a little reality into the discussion.
After all it's not YOUR discussion...it's A discussion.

NonEntity · Number of posts: 2598 Registration date: 2007-11-08

Phlogiston wrote:

It does bring a good question up though. Who should judge?

Absent a crime or harm being commited (someone's life interfered with against their wishes), I don't see that anyone aside from the person him or herself should. That is my point.

I would like to see a reasoned argument why you feel my view is in error.

- NonE

blackacidlizzard · Number of posts: 188 Registration date: 2008-05-21

NonEntity wrote:

It can be, and I think perhaps has been, considered in the nature of mentoring. I think an adult who knows the complexity of sexual stuff would be much more able to lead a first time sexual encounter to a pleasing and thoughtful result than a horny teenager with little to no experience who has his or her own urges primarily in mind.

Thoughtful?

The only thoughts I can think of which would be likely to areise are: "sex is a valid part of relationships of unequal power", along with an attraction to such relationships based upon the connection with physical pleasure that has been created.

NonEntity · Number of posts: 2598 Registration date: 2007-11-08

Well this is very interesting. I am interested in discussing the nature of personal sovereignty and the concept of how age is or is not an issue, and all anyone else seems to want to do is to delve into abusive sexual issues. Very strange.

- NonE

blackacidlizzard · Number of posts: 188 Registration date: 2008-05-21

NonEntity wrote:

Well this is very interesting. I am interested in discussing the nature of personal sovereignty and the concept of how age is or is not an issue, and all anyone else seems to want to do is to delve into abusive sexual issues. Very strange.

Wow.

Phlogiston · Subject: Re: Children and adults Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:52 pm

NonEntity wrote:

Phlogiston wrote:

It does bring a good question up though. Who should judge?

Absent a crime or harm being commited (someone's life interfered with against their wishes), I don't see that anyone aside from the person him or herself should. That is my point.

I would like to see a reasoned argument why you feel my view is in error.

- NonE

As soon as you say a crime or harm can't be commited then I don't have an argument.

If a 3 year old wants to leave home it should be able to if no harm can come to it. But then what would even define harm? I am not even sure the 3 year old being malnurished and eternally sickly should neccessarily be considered harm. Much less things like getting a "fuck you" tattoo on its face that will prevent it from ever getting a good job.
I think parents tend to equate harm with not the best interests of the child.
The samurai who freely choose honor and to serve a Daimyo (king) would allow for the daimyo to command them to die which to them wasn't harm but promoting their best interests in honor.

Thus I only have the arguement that your view is not defined sufficiently to allow for error. I also don't think it can be defined sufficiently.