How do cults progress/regress/develop?

ExyPhylo · Number of posts: 1180 Registration date: 2007-12-12

Laura, Tom, Karl, Rich, Bill, James P, Ash and the ones you mentioned....
but, I rarely see charlie, rod, ricky and few others...

Conrad · Subject: Re: How do cults progress/regress/develop? Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:38 am

Stephen, Joey, Nathan M., Lily Lucerne, Nasikabasomething, JC, Jessen, Nexalacer, ...

Zebra Foal · Number of posts: 877 Registration date: 2007-08-16

[quote="QuestEon"]

He also discusses a fascinating experiment regarding the unfreezing/changing/refreezing process (I'm greatly abbreviating below):

Steven Hassan wrote:

"This aspect of cult indoctrination was scientifically demonstrated by Dr. Flavil Yeakley, a well-respected psychologist and a member of the mainline Church of Christ. He administered the Myers-Briggs Personality Type Inventory Test to 800 members of the Boston Church of Christ, a cult group lead by Kip McKean...

Yeakley did something that was very creative. He had the members fill out the test three times, answering each question (1) as they would have before they joined the group, (2) as present members of the group, and (3) projecting five years into the future.

When Yeakley correlated the data, he found the personality types varied widely in the first test, all began moving toward the same personality type in the second test, and moved almost universally toward the leader's personality type in the third test.

As a comparison group, Yeakley administered the same test to members of the Roman Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, and Presbyterian churches, along with the mainline Church of Christ.

For these respondents, there was no personality change before, during, and after they joined their churches.

That is absolutely fascinating, QuestEon. Is anyone interested in Stef's (MBTI)personality type? I'm *pretty* sure I can guess it. But the odd thing is that he seems unequivocally an E--and I would say an E and T. I would have to check re S/n or P/J-- because he presents so oddly. In any case, if fdr members turned from I to E, that would be extraordinary--and I would argue that, for example, they didn't *become*"E's" but, re the questionnaire, would unconsciously ask "What would out leader say [in this case Stef]? and bubbling in that answer.

ExyPhylo · Number of posts: 1180 Registration date: 2007-12-12

Conrad wrote:

Stephen, Joey, Nathan M., Lily Lucerne, Nasikabasomething, JC, Jessen, Nexalacer, ...

Dats about 32 inner cirques.

For what it's worth the powerful force of Limi has about the same
number. (& about 43 fdr expats)

Coincidence?

Conrad · Subject: Re: How do cults progress/regress/develop? Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:46 pm

I think there probably are at least 20 more whose names we can't think of right now. so let's say there are about 50 people in the FDR inner circle.

Phlogiston · Number of posts: 621 Location: NOLA Registration date: 2007-10-25

Lets do some simple numbers.

2500 board members at FDR
4% sociopaths.
100 members should have been banned.
You banned people are all sociopaths.

WHAHAHAHA! lol!

Conrad · Subject: Re: How do cults progress/regress/develop? Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:52 pm

ouch... I think at least step #4 is problematic ;-)

ExyPhylo · Number of posts: 1180 Registration date: 2007-12-12

Conrad wrote:

I think there probably are at least 20 more whose names we can't think of right now. so let's say there are about 50 people in the FDR inner circle.

oK... so having said that... the outies equal the innies Razz

.... which accounts for zero growth...(considering both sides are equally passionate about their positions).

ExyPhylo · Number of posts: 1180 Registration date: 2007-12-12

Phlogiston wrote:

Lets do some simple numbers.

2500 board members at FDR
4% sociopaths.
100 members should have been banned.
You banned people are all sociopaths.

WHAHAHAHA! lol!

all banned people are still members so 100 members are sociopaths and 4 banned members would compromise part of the 100.
Not naming any names Phlog... Wink

Zebra Foal · Number of posts: 877 Registration date: 2007-08-16

QuestEon wrote:

Steven Hassan wrote:

"This aspect of cult indoctrination was scientifically demonstrated by Dr. Flavil Yeakley, a well-respected psychologist and a member of the mainline Church of Christ. He administered the Myers-Briggs Personality Type Inventory Test to 800 members of the Boston Church of Christ, a cult group lead by Kip McKean...

Yeakley did something that was very creative. He had the members fill out the test three times, answering each question (1) as they would have before they joined the group, (2) as present members of the group, and (3) projecting five years into the future.

When Yeakley correlated the data, he found the personality types varied widely in the first test, all began moving toward the same personality type in the second test, and moved almost universally toward the leader's personality type in the third test.

As a comparison group, Yeakley administered the same test to members of the Roman Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, and Presbyterian churches, along with the mainline Church of Christ.

For these respondents, there was no personality change before, during, and after they joined their churches.

So yes, absolutely, there are differences among cults, but some significant similarities as well. I can put up more detail about the unfreezing/changing/refreezing process if anyone wants.

-Q.E.

Here is a Meyers-Briggs Personality Test. It is a very abbreviated version but I tested it re my own results from a certified practitioner-administrated test and it seems pretty accurate from that perspective.

I don't know Stef very well, as I was on fdr for such a brief time, but I believe any of you could "take" the test *for* Stef. Analysis of the results is more complex than may first seem apparent, as different pairings of components produce dramatically different results and also the "shadow" side becomes important. As it is not dominant in the personality make-up, typically it is more primitive.
http://www.kisa.ca/personality/

It might be interesting to see how similar or not are the results of several testers responding as if they were Stef.

What I was trying to say in an earlier garbled response re Yeakley's experiment was just this: Stef is undoubtedly an extrovert. I would imagine many/most of his followers are introverts. If, according to Yeakley's experiment,they tested as extroverts after their indoctrination by Stef, that would be very startling. To me it would show not that they have *become* extraverts, but that they *think* they are--and that self-assessment may come from their feeling of comraderie, etc., on the Board--a very inauthentic environment or world of interactions-- as well as from their identification *with* Stef.

ExyPhylo · Number of posts: 1180 Registration date: 2007-12-12

Zebra Foal wrote:

What I was trying to say in an earlier garbled response re Yeakley's experiment was just this: Stef is undoubtedly an extrovert. I would imagine many/most of his followers are introverts. If, according to Yeakley's experiment,they tested as extroverts after their indoctrination by Stef, that would be very startling. To me it would show not that they have *become* extraverts, but that they *think* they are--and that self-assessment may come from their feeling of comraderie, etc., on the Board--a very inauthentic environment or world of interactions-- as well as from their identification *with* Stef.

Interesting. Introversion for some is a way of being/energizing. For others it's a way of coping. I have had long held beliefs most are some where in between. That is, some are extroverted in some groups and situations and some introverted in other environments. My test results always indicate I am an introvert which is always met with surprise from my colleagues.
Perhaps as with what your saying for example: the social misfit may appear introverted but may in an different (fit)environment be extroverted.

Libby · Number of posts: 65 Registration date: 2008-10-14

I think people mix up being introverted/extroverted with being shy/outgoing. You can be a really outgoing introvert. I think the way the Myers-Briggs thing defines it is that you feel refreshed after spending time alone if you are an introvert and you feel refreshed after spending time with people if you are an extrovert. So after a long day at the office, an introvert would go home and do something solitary to relax, and an extrovert would go out to happy hour with coworkers to relax.

INTJ represent!

QuestEon · Number of posts: 552 Registration date: 2008-03-25

Liberator wrote:

I think people mix up being introverted/extroverted with being shy/outgoing. You can be a really outgoing introvert. I think the way the Myers-Briggs thing defines it is that you feel refreshed after spending time alone if you are an introvert and you feel refreshed after spending time with people if you are an extrovert. So after a long day at the office, an introvert would go home and do something solitary to relax, and an extrovert would go out to happy hour with coworkers to relax.

INTJ represent!

That makes sense to me. I don't know for sure if Molyneux is an extrovert. He's created some giant voodoo philosophy that justifies dismissing as many people as possible from your life! He just doesn't sound like a party kind of guy to me.

He looks outgoing and all, but I think that's all an act and show and marketing.

Linking back to Zeb's line of thought, I would imagine his victims are not so far apart in personality from him. They might all share some introvertedness. But this is all my uninformed opinion.

_________________
-Q.E.

ExyPhylo · Number of posts: 1180 Registration date: 2007-12-12

Liberator wrote:

INTJ represent!

lol, INTP sistah

Conrad · Subject: Re: How do cults progress/regress/develop? Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:12 am

Zeb, what was I again? INTP or INTJ? or somewhere in the middle?