How do cults progress/regress/develop?

Dylboz · Number of posts: 2014 Registration date: 2007-09-20

Patience wrote:

Zebra Foal wrote:

Do we know whether L'Enfant Molyneux is to be une fille ou un garcon?

And for l'enfant's own sake, what do we hope for?

For the child's sake, a girl. Stef would try to re-live his own childhood through a son.

He's trying that with your son, and a lot of other people's sons. Vicarious vengeance is the primary aim of most of his deFOO recommendations. A chance to strike back and cause pain by proxy, justified by his memories of childhood.

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Libby · Number of posts: 65 Registration date: 2008-10-14

Patience wrote:

But I think he's going to find the whole thing difficult. He will no longer be the centre of the universe in that household.

Those selfish, selfish babies--the lot of 'em!

Mostly I am wondering how the child's teeth will get brushed when the child says no, I do not choose to brush my teeth tonight, and the parent have to decide whether or not to inflict their will upon the child's volition in order to clean the teeth, lest they decay (and perhaps fall out and perhaps contribute to a speech impediment). I wonder if the mother will be blamed for the child's refusal to brush his or her teeth (or eat vegetables, or come in from the sandbox) under the guise of the child rebelling against mistreatment using the only method of self-control available.

It was blame I often got myself. What was I doing during the day to make the two-year-old not want to eat dinner? Why was the two-year-old refusing food, which goes against life and nature, and is immoral? Was he trying to communicate his feelings about me and my treatment of him?

Zebra Foal · Number of posts: 877 Registration date: 2007-08-16

Liberator wrote:

Patience wrote:

But I think he's going to find the whole thing difficult. He will no longer be the centre of the universe in that household.

Those selfish, selfish babies--the lot of 'em!

Mostly I am wondering how the child's teeth will get brushed when the child says no, I do not choose to brush my teeth tonight, and the parent have to decide whether or not to inflict their will upon the child's volition in order to clean the teeth, lest they decay (and perhaps fall out and perhaps contribute to a speech impediment). I wonder if the mother will be blamed for the child's refusal to brush his or her teeth (or eat vegetables, or come in from the sandbox) under the guise of the child rebelling against mistreatment using the only method of self-control available.

It was blame I often got myself. What was I doing during the day to make the two-year-old not want to eat dinner? Why was the two-year-old refusing food, which goes against life and nature, and is immoral? Was he trying to communicate his feelings about me and my treatment of him?

Ah! The guilt and confusion are unending, are they not?
One thing for sure: L'enfant Molyneux will have only a false self, as Stef can allow no other.

...um.. on the other hand, the baby may be passive and compliant like xina... and still have only, ever... a false self.

It is unspeakably sad.

Libby · Number of posts: 65 Registration date: 2008-10-14

I really think the baby is going to have a perfectly normal babyhood. I think the child will have a perfectly normal childhood. And I think sometimes the child's teeth will be brushed when the parents decide they need to be brushed, and if it's going to traumatize anyone it will traumatize the parents more.

conspeclst26 · Number of posts: 23 Registration date: 2008-10-23

Sorry to be commenting late on this subject - - I don't know that I am an "expert" on the subject, I do consider myself an "RKP" Reasonably Knowledgeable person.

In my 26+ years of learning and dealing with this phenomenon there is little to point to as a natural progression as far as cults go.

Some die when their leader/founder dies. The Church Universal Triumphant, Elizabeth Claire Prophets group still exists but barely once she was diagnosed with Ahlzimers.
She was supposed to be beyond the reached of normal human maladies.
The Way International, The Branch Davidians, The Peoples Temple are but shadows of their former selves during the life of their leaders.
Some that have a well defined structure with documentation of how to operate, and continue on fairly close to how the leader would have operated.
Scientology, Mormonism, Jehovah Witnesses, could be considered examples of those. All are well heeled and positioned for lasting.
Sung Young Moon is still alive but getting pretty old. As he is the New Messiah for the Moonies/Unification Church, it will be very interesting to see how the group changes when he dies.. This group is pretty deeply entrenched into America - - they own the Washington Times conservative newspaper, the old New Yorker hotel, Tong Il Industries in Korea, many fisheries on the US East coast, restaurants, a majority of ginseng tea and herbal remedies. They are quite the conglomeration and very wealthy.

Sometimes cult leaders miscalculate, such as Kip McKean of the International Churches of Christ, aka The Boston Movement when he admitted to wrong doing and steppeddown from the executive position. It caused the group to splinter and many members to leave.

Sometimes victims become disenchanted, leave and start their own version of "truth" - - Paul Twitchell left Scientology and began EKANKAR - - a mix of Scientology tech and Eastern Mysticism.
Werner Erhard started est (Erhard Seminar Training, a large group awareness training) after Scientology - - which made him a squirrel in the eyes of the church of Scientology and therefore, a target for the "Fair Game" policy.

Some eventually morph into groups with balanced power and methods of recourse to complaints - - to become ethical organizations. Usually this has to do with money and how they must follow government regulations in order to survive.

The cult/undue influence problem is (to me) part of the human condition. We will always have individuals who are capable of extreme influence, with a natural ability to lead - - they will be good if not great talkers who seem to make sense even if the logic can be proven to be illogical.
Human nature being what it is, some people will be willing to follow and if there is no balancing of power, it is likely the group will gravitate towards becoming a cult.
Many groups start out with legitimate goals and actions. Success can breed intolerance for change or anything different ( opposing views or critical thoughts) and if allowed, increases the leader/group control. Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple is one graphic example going from a community commune movement to suicide and murder in British Guiana, South America in a few short years.

On rare occasions, groups/leaders will have a sudden realization that they have been abusive and wrong. They will apologize and disband. I am aware of 2 groups that did this. This is out of between 3 to 4,000 groups estimated to be operating at any given time.

Given all of the history of cults, it is still amazing and somewhat depressing to know there is no college or university where one may become an accredited expert.
The most I am aware of is that a course on the subject may be offered via a psychology department.

It was a bit of an epiphany for me to eventually realize that I too, given the right timing and circumstance might fall prey to an unethical/undue influence leader/system.
I have learned that intellect has little to do to ward off the undue influence - - in fact, it would seem the higher functioning one is, the better subject they become. I also realized I could become a cult leader if I started to believe my own press clippings and that I had a corner on the truth.