JC Molyneux: the cult in action

Xeonious · Number of posts: 197 Registration date: 2008-08-06

Conrad wrote:

The main part that bugs me is I don't get the strong indication that the questions people ask are to help but to lead them in a particular direction(I think there intention is to help however). Not once have I see these conversations end with "ya know, maybe you could patch things up", ever, not once (unless you count the parents who have been on podcasts). It's like if a scientist assumed(without proper evidence) blackberries would cure cancer and then set out to look for evidence to validate his claims, it's a pre-concieved notion which adds bias. In this case, they assume one should defoo(because 99% of parents are evil right?), and then look for evidence for why this is the case. Although I will admit I didnt spend enough time reading the whole conversation, so If I'm wrong please point that out.

What about it bugged you the most Conrad?

Dylboz · Number of posts: 2014 Registration date: 2007-09-20

Blech. Polly wanna cracker?

Then there's this: "emotions are involuntary physical reactions determined by..."

Are FDRers now embracing determinism? Razz

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Conrad · Subject: Re: JC Molyneux: the cult in action Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:37 pm

Xeonious wrote:

Conrad wrote:

here

The main part that bugs me is I don't get the strong indication that the questions people ask are to help but to lead them in a particular direction(I think there intention is to help however). Not once have I see these conversations end with "ya know, maybe you could patch things up", ever, not once (unless you count the parents who have been on podcasts). It's like if a scientist assumed(without proper evidence) blackberries would cure cancer and then set out to look for evidence to validate his claims, it's a pre-concieved notion which adds bias. In this case, they assume one should defoo(because 99% of parents are evil right?), and then look for evidence for why this is the case. Although I will admit I didnt spend enough time reading the whole conversation, so If I'm wrong please point that out.

What about it bugged you the most Conrad?

what you said, plus that it is Molyneux speaking through him and that he is dead serious, no room for doubt, no curiosity whatsoever

it seems like a pretty wonderful conversation she had with her mother, is that not something to build on? or at least to acknowledge?

Conrad · Subject: Re: JC Molyneux: the cult in action Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:42 pm

I don't know, you can feel the anger in JC's words, and it's Molyneux' anger. JC is just channeling it.

QuestEon · Number of posts: 552 Registration date: 2008-03-25

Conrad wrote:

Xeonious wrote:

...The main part that bugs me is I don't get the strong indication that the questions people ask are to help but to lead them in a particular direction(I think there intention is to help however). Not once have I see these conversations end with "ya know, maybe you could patch things up", ever, not once (unless you count the parents who have been on podcasts)...

...it is Molyneux speaking through [JC] and he is dead serious, no room for doubt, no curiosity whatsoever

it seems like a pretty wonderful conversation she had with her mother, is that not something to build on? or at least to acknowledge?

Conrad wrote:

I don't know, you can feel the anger in JC's words, and it's Molyneux' anger. JC is just channeling it.

I really do think JC is trying to act like a Molyneux clone. In her intro post, she said she was recruited to FDR by her boyfriend. Maybe JC is it? Oh, I doubt it. A good boyfriend would linger outside the thread and let his friends do the love-bombing.

The "identify unfreezing" begins here. This is the saddest part for me, because you feel like you can still reach out a hand and catch them before they fall.

The boyfriend made her read "On Truth," which is a very good recruiting tool. Sadly, she naively thought Molyneux was in earnest and she actually had an open and conversation with her mother that went very well as she describes it here. It sounded like the beginning of a new honesty and authenticity in their relationship.

If this girl had taken this post as a conversation starter to any competent therapist, she'd be on her way to independent adulthood and a healthy relationship with her mother. Instead, the breaking down of her personality begins in this thread, helped along by her boyfriend off-line.

In a month or so, we'll hear her in a podcast being broken in Molyneux's all-too-familiar script. The tearful intro. The concerned Molyneux empathizing with her sadness. The exploration of her childhood. That foul, unleashed-beast of a stepfather who brutalized her. The horrors she endured. Until we finally reach the truth--the satanic witch who unleashed the beast to begin with, her mother. Her mother who stood by and let all of this happen, perhaps in her sick heart wanted this to happen. Oh, how gently Molyneux will hold this new daughter of FDR in his Skype arms, to provide the succor so long denied one so innocent. How sweetly he will lead her away from the sick ones who kept her true self so submerged.

And so it will go, unless she has questions about FDR and her boyfriend kicks her to the curb. And then after all that she winds up here.

I dunno. Should we just go over to her blog and invite her over now?

_________________
-Q.E.

Libby · Number of posts: 65 Registration date: 2008-10-14

Someone should tell her that the conversation with her mother was absolutely positive and a great starting point for a renewal of a relationship on honest, adult terms. For real. I'd do it, but I don't feel like I have clout or the right background experience to be taken seriously by her. I'm nobody. You guys, though, have made the journey. She might listen.

If she and her mother are both damaged and both reading philosophy, they could be helping each other with life right now. It kills me that she's listening to these posters twist her story around. The very first response is the worst. He undermines her happiness by bringing up the smallest point possible (saying out loud that she's an atheist) and then by telling her how to interpret her mother's interest as just another way her mother is going to control her. He actually says that such interest is ugly stuff.

So your friends and relatives are damned if they aren't interested in FDR and damned if they are. Nice.

Conrad · Subject: Re: JC Molyneux: the cult in action Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:30 am

QuestEon wrote:

Conrad wrote:

Xeonious wrote:

...The main part that bugs me is I don't get the strong indication that the questions people ask are to help but to lead them in a particular direction(I think there intention is to help however). Not once have I see these conversations end with "ya know, maybe you could patch things up", ever, not once (unless you count the parents who have been on podcasts)...

...it is Molyneux speaking through [JC] and he is dead serious, no room for doubt, no curiosity whatsoever

it seems like a pretty wonderful conversation she had with her mother, is that not something to build on? or at least to acknowledge?

Conrad wrote:

I don't know, you can feel the anger in JC's words, and it's Molyneux' anger. JC is just channeling it.

I really do think JC is trying to act like a Molyneux clone. In her intro post, she said she was recruited to FDR by her boyfriend. Maybe JC is it? Oh, I doubt it. A good boyfriend would linger outside the thread and let his friends do the love-bombing.

The "identify unfreezing" begins here. This is the saddest part for me, because you feel like you can still reach out a hand and catch them before they fall.

The boyfriend made her read "On Truth," which is a very good recruiting tool. Sadly, she naively thought Molyneux was in earnest and she actually had an open and conversation with her mother that went very well as she describes it here. It sounded like the beginning of a new honesty and authenticity in their relationship.

If this girl had taken this post as a conversation starter to any competent therapist, she'd be on her way to independent adulthood and a healthy relationship with her mother. Instead, the breaking down of her personality begins in this thread, helped along by her boyfriend off-line.

In a month or so, we'll hear her in a podcast being broken in Molyneux's all-too-familiar script. The tearful intro. The concerned Molyneux empathizing with her sadness. The exploration of her childhood. That foul, unleashed-beast of a stepfather who brutalized her. The horrors she endured. Until we finally reach the truth--the satanic witch who unleashed the beast to begin with, her mother. Her mother who stood by and let all of this happen, perhaps in her sick heart wanted this to happen. Oh, how gently Molyneux will hold this new daughter of FDR in his Skype arms, to provide the succor so long denied one so innocent. How sweetly he will lead her away from the sick ones who kept her true self so submerged.

And so it will go, unless she has questions about FDR and her boyfriend kicks her to the curb. And then after all that she winds up here.

I dunno. Should we just go over to her blog and invite her over now?

very well said once again.

don't think she would accept an invite to LM, but a message saying that she might want to talk to her therapist about this and that there are dangers in following e.g. JC's advice, may be of help.

Conrad · Subject: Re: JC Molyneux: the cult in action Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:33 am

Liberator wrote:

Someone should tell her that the conversation with her mother was absolutely positive and a great starting point for a renewal of a relationship on honest, adult terms. For real. I'd do it, but I don't feel like I have clout or the right background experience to be taken seriously by her. I'm nobody. You guys, though, have made the journey. She might listen.

If she and her mother are both damaged and both reading philosophy, they could be helping each other with life right now.

ah, but her mother read some Buddhist stuff, and Buddhists are corrupt and/or ignorant and/or mystical and/or cowards, so that's all very bad and telling. even if her mom is fine with other people having different ideas or beliefs, she must be at least one of the above. Not an honest, virtuous truth-seeker in any case.

(just trying to reason from an FDR perspecive here)

Libby · Number of posts: 65 Registration date: 2008-10-14

MeladorianGal has started another thread about her thoughts from yesterday and the new perspective that the morning brings, and it looks like to me (who knows nothing about her or her family or her history) that she is recasting her mother in a completely different light. She only now--after being pressed by other posters to not put too much stock in the positive aspects of the conversation--is bringing up examples that show her mother cussing her out and calling her names when she, as a small child, innocently asked if they could make a favorite dish together.

Why wasn't this episode referred to yesterday when they were talking about her mother and their relationship and when she seemed ambivalent and willing to defend her mother? Why did she overtly start to agree with these guys only after she described herself as so tired that she could hardly see straight?

Dylboz · Number of posts: 2014 Registration date: 2007-09-20

Sleep deprivation and badgering to stay focused and participate, keep listening to podcasts, etc. is all very culty, and I imagine, much like your husband's friend was doing, her boyfriend is reinforcing it IRL.

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ExyPhylo · Number of posts: 1180 Registration date: 2007-12-12

Liberator wrote:

Why wasn't this episode referred to yesterday when they were talking about her mother and their relationship and when she seemed ambivalent and willing to defend her mother? Why did she overtly start to agree with these guys only after she described herself as so tired that she could hardly see straight?

Perhaps she succumbed to peer pressure.

Libby · Number of posts: 65 Registration date: 2008-10-14

Day 1 Mother (From the "Dear Mother" Thread):

Quote:

what I want most, is for my mother to still be in my life.. why? because I almost feel as though my mother survived some of the twisted stuff that I did. What is true however, is yes she did. She did survive it. However, she claims it has gotten better. But she is still with this man. It was her responsibility to protect me from this torment. She made a few attempts. It didn't matter though.. she stayed with him. I had to stay with her. The truth is, she is responsible for the continuance. I gained things from her; yet I lost so much because she didn't protect me from it. She tried to help me still grow and be functional, and not totally destroyed... but I am still broken and it was she, who was supposed to protect me. She, was my protection and she didn't do that. She knew what was happening.

Day 2 Mother (From the "Dear Mother: Giving Credit Where It Is Due" Thread):

Quote:

So, this incident. My mother had told me we would make malasades(sp?) (portuguese french bread with powdered sugar). We were going to make it together, and it was a rare moment for us. I looked forward to it so much, and I had thought about it ALL day before reminding her. When I did, I kind of got nervous. I just had this feeling she was going to get upset. And.. she did. It goes a little something like this.....

Me:"momma, what are you doing?"

Mom:" Cooking.. "

Me:"Well, do you remember saying we were going to make the malasades?" (teetering carefully, because I knew she remembered. She just had yet to come to me about it, and the waiting was killing me.)

Mom:" Jessie? Do you not see that I am still cooking, and do you not remember that I told you that we would make them when we I have time?"

Me:"yes.. I just.. I just thought we were going to make them today."

Mom: " Dammit!!!!!!!!! (very loud, very harsh) I told you! When I have time!!!! I am busy, and I have alot I have to do, and we will make the damn things, alright? (my ears doing that, "shrinking" thing when someone yells at you)"

Me:" I just wanted to make them momma.. (trying not to cry, trying not to cry... didn't work. I started crying..)"

Mom:" You are so selfish!!!!!!!!!!!! "

Me:" Momma... (crying more now, feeling extreme hurt, sad. Sharp sharp pain.. at this poing I am actually sliding down in to the corner of the cabinets in the kitchen. Essentially collapsing to the floor. I felt like. I feel like this was the worst feeling I had ever felt.)"

Mom:" quit it!!! You little bitch. If you don't stop crying, I will give you a damn good reason to be."

Thats all I remember about it.

Conrad · Subject: Re: JC Molyneux: the cult in action Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:02 pm

'Mom:" quit it!!! You little bitch. If you don't stop crying, I will give you a damn good reason to be."

that's pretty damn bad.

but as is clear from her first post it is not the whole story of her relationship with her mother, and a good therapist might be of great help in figuring out what she truly feels, what she wants and how to try to achieve it.

FDR'ers on the other hand will try to get her to focus solely on the bad stuff and base her decisions on that and the FDR'ers interpretation of it all.

meladoriangal · Number of posts: 2 Registration date: 2008-11-15

Wow.. I sure am some popular discussion. Smile

I will say, on my own behalf that I am not being fed information without my inspecting before swallowing.

I'm doing a pretty good job of figuring out many aspects of my past that ring true. I am attempting to better myself. That being said, I also feel with the tone of this discussion, it also needs to be said that even in my vulnerable state of picking apart elements of my past, I still use my own rational mind to figure out what is true. What is possibly not true; and maintaining the stand that I am the one who inevitably decides what is best for myself now as opposed to others.

That includes FDR.

I am not following the words as doctrine. I am using the questions as emotional stimulus to get to the bottom of things with my own rational thinking. I do just so happen to see a great deal of validity in the ideas proposed.

Likewise, I have had many conversations with these individuals and more(outside of forums) about the specific situation of communicating with my mother. Believe it or not, there are other Freedomainers who believe my stand on our conversation being a good thing, is true. However, it is key to remember that even though there is that good conversation, and the potential for peace between my mother and I where I am myself, and she appreciates such, I must remember where I have learned many of my practices from which have caused such afflicting anxieties with her to begin with.

It goes hand in hand, and no. I'm not cutting off my ties with my mother, because she verbally slammed me against the wall at a very young age. I would cut off ties with my mother, if the only way I could function as the person I AM and be happy and productive, were threatened by continuing the relationship.

So please, acknowledge I'm not stupid. 95% of my realizations came from realizing the difficulty in my life because I have been thinking irrationally. the other 5% came from people simply asking questions. If the questions led me to my realizations, that essentially means I am using my brain.

So please. No worries.

Admittedly, I found it quite awkward seeing this discussion in another forum. I honestly do not know anything about this forum, so my discomfort I believe is valid. I'm not saying you are not free to form your own opinions. However, it is far more helpful if one is concerned to step forward and say something. I would have gladly taken any other views as a potential for growth, although as I keep saying... I have my own mind to run it through.

I don't believe in God. I don't believe it Gods. Stef is not my god. He does have a pretty sexy pan-European accent. But, my point being...

If you still feel a concern, knowing all of which I have just said, please feel free to e-mail me. I am very friendly and respectful, but I am honest. I only expect the same if you choose to send me an e-mail. Anything disrespectful is a definite reason for me to not take what you have to say seriously.

Thank you.