Thanks, but this video podcast really rammed home how much like my ex-wife Stef is, at least as far as resentment, forgiveness and the misery brought on by nursing old grudges goes, so I know that personality type intimately. Half my life was spent trying to meet the ever-shifting demands she put on me in an effort to win her approval or forgiveness for something or other. I was never very successful, and the harder I tried, the more resentful I became, because she was miserable and making ME miserable, too. Sometimes I'd get so mad, I'd act out and piss her off on purpose, starting the whole sordid cycle anew. It's a sick kind of co-dependence.

It starts out looking like principled integrity, but after the rules start changing and the cruel manipulations reveal that you are playing a game that you'll never win, because you can't know the rules, you realize its just the opposite, dishonest and cynical through and through.

But "aggressive apology" is generally the exception, not the rule, yet Stefan seems to be goading it in others, trying to provoke an exasperated "what more do you want from me!" so he can justify rejection of the forgiveness seeker. Do you feel that in most cases, people demand forgiveness inappropriately? Is that you personal experience?

No, that is not my experience. I have not yet listened to the podcast to see if your interpretation seems accurate... I might go ahead and do that.

"demand forgiveness"

Hmm. Is that like "up down?" Or "voluntary rape?"

- NonE

Forgiveness is not something one asks about. As a token of showing how one feel one can say "I am sorry to the person one has hurt". However by a civilized person, forgiveness is just granted without anything in return. That is what I do, the time I can hold a grudge is usually no longer than a few minutes for petty things or a day at most for things that really made me angry.

that is an excellent post by QuestEon, the way he shows how Stef's philosophy of forgiveness is so intertwined with his psychological state, and just how odd the philosophy (and by implication how strange his psychological state) is. I especially liked this summary:

Quote:

If a stranger damages or takes your property, you should expect to be compenstated for the equal value of the property. If, however, someone you love offends you, before you forgive them you should expect to be fully compensated. You should expect additional compensation beyond that. You should expect them to read your mind and know exactly what you think that additional compensation might be. You must kick them to the curb if they fail to do so. And then they owe you 10 times the number of days you were offended in blissful, perfect days.

QuestEon has highlighted the significance of this podcast in understanding Stef's obsession with destroying families.

QuestEon wrote:

This is the podcast that explains why he has thrown a decade-long temper tantrum against his family. Why he has been frozen in time, unable to move forward, bringing them up again and again in his books and podcasts. It exposes the mental tricks he plays on himself that makes it easy for him to discard people--the same tricks he has played on his followers to encourage them to turn their backs on those who love them.

Quote:

And then they owe you 10 times the number of days you were offended in blissful, perfect days.

So, it's as well Stef was lying when he said my son was mistreated every day of his life till he left home. Had it been true, it might have taken 180 years to compensate my son to Stef's satisfaction.

He is setting up an impossible situation to guarantee a failure of the parent to discern what they are supposed to do. They will get frustrated and angry, and then Stef wins, he gets to be "right" and that is what matters to him most. Whatever the parent does, he will interpret it for his victims as hostility or disingenuousness. Just like when he acted like a child in the endless determinism debates and badgered his interlocutors with accusations of hostility until they gave up in exasperation, then he claimed victory. He is dishonest and manipulative, and this theory of forgiveness is a deliberately set trap.

It is an impossible situation it's emotional blackmail I want to be able to speak to my child but if I email I know he will drive us apart even further. I spend hours thinking of what I like to say to fix this situation but it would be the worst thing to do, I can't ask for forgiveness though because I have not done anything wrong.