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 Philosopher Molyneux interviews scientist deMause

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Conrad



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PostSubject: Philosopher Molyneux interviews scientist deMause   Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:05 pm

Haha!

here

Will I listen to an FDR podcast/video again after all these months? Will I?

For earlier discussion about deMause see here and here

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Conrad



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PostSubject: Re: Philosopher Molyneux interviews scientist deMause   Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:12 pm

Haha!

deMause is completely unhinged! (I'm listening to it right now)

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Conrad



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PostSubject: Re: Philosopher Molyneux interviews scientist deMause   Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:45 pm

did Stefan just say that 1/3d of men and half of women report having been sexually abused as children? @36:00

oh no he di'int

oh yes he did

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Last edited by Conrad on Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Conrad



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PostSubject: Re: Philosopher Molyneux interviews scientist deMause   Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:48 pm

haha! 36:50 deMause is talking about this supposedly great law in Austrian where mothers get 3 years of maternity leave paid for by the government.

And Stefan says... wait for it... nothing...

So Stefan is friends with somebody who wants him dead. And he hasn't tried to reason or RTR with the fellow about this yet.

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Conrad



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PostSubject: Re: Philosopher Molyneux interviews scientist deMause   Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:51 pm

haha! this guy just makes up stuff. the prison thing, and then Stef goes 'Zero? Wow!'


Hahaha!

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Stewart



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PostSubject: Re: Philosopher Molyneux interviews scientist deMause   Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:15 pm

You're like a kid in a candy store Smile
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Conrad



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PostSubject: Re: Philosopher Molyneux interviews scientist deMause   Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:06 am

if by 'candy store' you mean 'animal shelter' and by 'kid' you mean 'Michael Vick', then yeah...


Seriously though, on some levels this is a hilarious podcast. deMause is just some wacky guy with a hobby, and Stefan treats him as if he is a revolutionary scientist.

But if nobody is going to join me in the mocking...

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PostSubject: Re: Philosopher Molyneux interviews scientist deMause   Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:44 am

Molyneux's psychology ideas are a jumbled mess. He wants to say everything derives from science and first principles but I believe--despite what he says--that the vast majority of his thinking comes from John Bradshaw, a shallow recovery-movement pop psychologist who was still popular when Molyneux was in therapy (I infer that his own therapist was a devotee and that's where it really all started for him). I'd also bet that after Christina got her Bachelor's Degree, she also read a few of Bradshaw's books and has based her practice, such as it is, on him. Christina doesn't seem to have a significant amount of training and, in the end, she's no different from anybody else who reads pop psychology books. Her "it all starts with the family" line is pure Bradshaw.

Unfortunately, Bradshaw's theories--like Molyneux's--aren't derived from any kind of real research. Worse, he calls himself a theologian and is fairly mystical. Molyneux's idea that virtually all families are abusive is absolutely from Bradshaw. So, the line that "1/3d of men and half of women report having been sexually abused as children"--which sounds preposterous to normal people--sounds natural to him.

It's easy to see why Molyneux searches for more credibly scientific sources to back him up. At some level he must understand that once you understand Bradshaw's shallow grasp on psychology, you also understand that Molyneux is in the same boat. Far more important, Molyneux would find it difficult to explain how and why he has been inspired by someone so thoroughly Christian!

Enter first Alice Miller, who is certainly a step or so up but who is still not given a lot of attention by either mainstream or academic psychology. It isn't that she's wrong per se, but she doesn't seem to have a lot of research behind her and she tends to be on the strident side. I think this review of one of her books (If Only Hitler's Father Had Been Nicer) by the New York Times is a fairly incisive critique.

You can also see in this review the intellectual (for want of a better word) connection between Miller and deMause. Molyneux, with his background in history, interest in psychology, and desire to encourage 20-year-olds to defoo, laps it all up. deMause is a crackpot, of course.

Molyneux's oft-quoted statement, "Deep down I do not believe that there are any really good parents out there," is based on deMause's psychogenic modes in Psychohistory. What Molyneux is saying (in his usual apparent narcissistic delusions of grandeur) is that he has become the parenting futurist creating the next "mode" in history. Molyneux is doing that by teaching all of his FDR acolytes about parenting--just exactly as he got world philosophy back on track with UPB. And thank goodness for that!

Molyneux lives in that post-Freudian bubble that indicts parents for most of a person's ills. Since Freud, popular (and some mainstream) psychology has moved progressively further toward outright family hate (i.e., Bradshaw) If you're trying to create a group that is designed to pry people away from their families, then Bradshaw's theories are manna from heaven. Molyneux can't acknowledge Bradshaw directly, though. deMause makes it all sound very "scientific" and gives it the grand historical sweep that is irresistable to him. Molyneux's closest followers take it all in with awe and wonder, but it's all tripe.

Since a lot of modern thinking unquestioningly lives inside the we-are-victims-of-our-parents Freudian bubble, we so often forget that the actual degree of impact a parent has on a child's personality--if any--isn't fully known. There may be very little.

I know that Molyneux is a very smart guy, but he makes the mistake of believing that being smart in one thing makes you smart in all things. Maybe he really should have focused on software sales and become a billionaire with interesting political views.

When it comes to psychology, however, there's no way around the brutal fact that he's just a dope.

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Conrad



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PostSubject: Re: Philosopher Molyneux interviews scientist deMause   Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:21 pm

wow! great post with a lot of valuable stuff. and tyhanks for the reference to the excellent article about Alice Miller. It's truly as if the author is writing about Stefan.

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Patience



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PostSubject: Re: Philosopher Molyneux interviews scientist deMause   Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:12 am

Conrad wrote:
if by 'candy store' you mean 'animal shelter' and by 'kid' you mean 'Michael Vick', then yeah...


Seriously though, on some levels this is a hilarious podcast. deMause is just some wacky guy with a hobby, and Stefan treats him as if he is a revolutionary scientist.

But if nobody is going to join me in the mocking...

I would have joined in but I've been offline for a few days. Looks like you did pretty well by yourself. QuestEon's post certainly outshone any comments I would have made. (QuestEon, you never cease to amaze me. How do you know all this stuff?!!)
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Bigus Dickus



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PostSubject: Re: Philosopher Molyneux interviews scientist deMause   Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:59 pm

For all of Popper's faults, I do commend him for how insistent he was on the notion that grand philosophies of history are bullshit. deMause chalks it all up to parenting, in much the same way as for instance Jared Diamond chalks it all up to geography. They both find ways to make their arguments rather convincing.
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Stewart



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PostSubject: Re: Philosopher Molyneux interviews scientist deMause   Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:37 pm

I'm not sure it's fair to compare deMause and Diamond. Whereas deMause seems to make general claims about the nature of the human condition, Diamond makes fairly specific claims about what actually happened.

And more importantly, Diamond isn't batshit crazy like deMause is.
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NonEntity



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PostSubject: Re: Philosopher Molyneux interviews scientist deMause   Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:43 pm

Maybe Diamond is simply rodent feces irrational?

- NonE
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