Ponerology

NonEntity · Number of posts: 2598 Registration date: 2007-11-08

Here is a new article by Kevin Barrett on a new (for me) subject: Ponerology.

It is at once both extremely depressing and cause for hope.

A snippet:

Quote:

In Political Ponerology, Andrzej Lobaczewski explains that clinical psychopaths enjoy advantages even in non-violent competitions to climb the ranks of social hierarchies. Because they can lie without remorse (and without the telltale physiological stress that is measured by lie detector tests) psychopaths can always say whatever is necessary to get what they want. In court, for example, psychopaths can tell extreme bald-faced lies in a plausible manner, while their sane opponents are handicapped by an emotional predisposition to remain within hailing distance of the truth. Too often, the judge or jury imagines that the truth must be somewhere in the middle, and then issues decisions that benefit the psychopath. As with judges and juries, so too with those charged with decisions concerning who to promote and who not to promote in corporate, military and governmental hierarchies. The result is that all hierarchies inevitably become top-heavy with psychopaths.

- NonE

Conrad · Subject: Re: Ponerology Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:13 pm

you're connecting this with Stef I take it? I think especially the point about lying causing them no psychological stress is crucial. Zebra Foal showed me some time ago that e.g. Stef actually gains energy from attacks (as well as from praise), exactly because he is not burdened by a conscience and everything in his way is just fuel for him. (although there were some situations in which he complained to people that they were crossing him in a period where he was having it rough already)

NonEntity · Number of posts: 2598 Registration date: 2007-11-08

Conrad wrote:

you're connecting this with Stef I take it? I think especially the point about lying causing them no psychological stress is crucial. Zebra Foal showed me some time ago that e.g. Stef actually gains energy from attacks (as well as from praise), exactly because he is not burdened by a conscience and everything in his way is just fuel for him. (although there were some situations in which he complained to people that they were crossing him in a period where he was having it rough already)

NO!!! Who brought Stef into this? I no longer concern myself with that person.

I found the article to be seemingly insightful. I've not really heard of "ponerology" before, but heard it mentioned on a Kevin Barrett talk show and then read this article and found it a very satisfying explanation for what I see in the world around me. It explains why those who rise in power in organizations tend to be cretins more often than not.

Stef is no longer on my radar. He's shown himself unworthy of my further consideration. Why y'all continue to fester over this is beyond me, but go ahead if you must.

- NonE

mike barskey · Subject: Re: Ponerology Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:30 pm

NonEntity wrote:

Stef is no longer on my radar. He's shown himself unworthy of my further consideration.

lordmetroid · Number of posts: 212 Registration date: 2007-08-18

Why is this thread posted under FDR subsection on this forum if it is not about Stefan?

Conrad · Subject: Re: Ponerology Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:00 pm

same question here (unless you were being ironic/sarcastic)

NonEntity · Number of posts: 2598 Registration date: 2007-11-08

Hmm. Beats me. Subsection? You mean I'm supposed to pay attention to the rules and stuff. I must have wandered into the wrong sandbox. I don't understand rules.

- NonE (Having NO IDEA how or why I ended up here, nor where I came from, nor what the meaning of life is, for that matter!)

The only button on my radar is the one that says PORTAL.

Alex · Subject: Re: Ponerology Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:15 am

Quote:

Too often, the judge or jury imagines that the truth must be somewhere in the middle, and then issues decisions that benefit the psychopath.

Whoa, that is a compact statement.

1. Psuedo Aristotelian Mean
2. Planned misuse of such a mean to negotiate a 'middle', which is the actual end.
3. Mistakes all around by 'a jury of one's peers', and it goes without saying, the judge.

Conrad wrote:

you're connecting this with Stef I take it? I think especially the point about lying causing them no psychological stress is crucial. Zebra Foal showed me some time ago that e.g. Stef actually gains energy from attacks (as well as from praise), exactly because he is not burdened by a conscience and everything in his way is just fuel for him. (although there were some situations in which he complained to people that they were crossing him in a period where he was having it rough already)

I think your post contradicts itself. (I always seem to disagree with you on psychology stuff. Why is that?).

A sociopath or psychopath doesn't feed on the manipulation of others. Thats a narcissist (or variation). The sociopath may well use other towards their own ends without remorse (lack of conscience), but their primary psychic energies are not derived from that use, but from their ends, which are entirely without empathy. I wouldn't suggest that Stef is a psychopathic type. He's got genuine interpersonal needs. 'Feeding' is the behavior of someone with a conscience, but wherein that conscience is bastardized to serve shadow primary needs.

In this sense, sociopaths are dangerous like a flood is dangerous. But a narcissist is dangerous like a vampire is dangerous. The narcissist also lacks empathy, but for different reasons.

doctorkira?

_________________
If you lend someone $20 and never see that person again, it was probably worth it.

NonEntity · Number of posts: 2598 Registration date: 2007-11-08

Quote:

In this sense, sociopaths are dangerous like a flood is dangerous. But a narcissist is dangerous like a vampire is dangerous. The narcissist also lacks empathy, but for different reasons.

I LOVE analogies! It's like they are big words that have been digested. Wink

- NonE

Conrad · Subject: Re: Ponerology Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:36 pm

Alex wrote:

Quote:

Too often, the judge or jury imagines that the truth must be somewhere in the middle, and then issues decisions that benefit the psychopath.

Whoa, that is a compact statement.

1. Psuedo Aristotelian Mean
2. Planned misuse of such a mean to negotiate a 'middle', which is the actual end.
3. Mistakes all around by 'a jury of one's peers', and it goes without saying, the judge.

Conrad wrote:

you're connecting this with Stef I take it? I think especially the point about lying causing them no psychological stress is crucial. Zebra Foal showed me some time ago that e.g. Stef actually gains energy from attacks (as well as from praise), exactly because he is not burdened by a conscience and everything in his way is just fuel for him. (although there were some situations in which he complained to people that they were crossing him in a period where he was having it rough already)

I think your post contradicts itself. (I always seem to disagree with you on psychology stuff. Why is that?).

A sociopath or psychopath doesn't feed on the manipulation of others. Thats a narcissist (or variation). The sociopath may well use other towards their own ends without remorse (lack of conscience), but their primary psychic energies are not derived from that use, but from their ends, which are entirely without empathy. I wouldn't suggest that Stef is a psychopathic type. He's got genuine interpersonal needs. 'Feeding' is the behavior of someone with a conscience, but wherein that conscience is bastardized to serve shadow primary needs.

yeah, I think you're entirely right and thanks for clarifying the difference. So Stef is a narcissist but not so much a psychopath or sociopath. Would you agree though that Stef's 'interpersonal needs' are of the narcissistic kind, at least primarily?

Quote:

In this sense, sociopaths are dangerous like a flood is dangerous. But a narcissist is dangerous like a vampire is dangerous. The narcissist also lacks empathy, but for different reasons.

doctorkira?

pretty damn good analogy indeed (although it would have been even better if 'flood' and 'vampire' had stood in sort of an 'accepted' or well-known kind of relation already)

NonEntity · Number of posts: 2598 Registration date: 2007-11-08

Conrad wrote:

pretty damn good analogy indeed (although it would have been even better if 'flood' and 'vampire' had stood in sort of an 'accepted' or well-known kind of relation already)

I'm getting this really cool image of a vampire "hanging ten" on a surfboard shooting the waves of blood onto Elvira's private beach.

- NonE

Conrad · Subject: Re: Ponerology Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:56 pm

great context!

now all you need is about a couple of million people being familiar with this image and the analogy will be even stronger

NonEntity · Number of posts: 2598 Registration date: 2007-11-08

Well, I got one... that's a start!

- NonE Wink

NonEntity · Number of posts: 2598 Registration date: 2007-11-08

Here's an interesting quote that I just ran across. I'm not sure what it means or what I think of it, but I thought it might interest a few of you as it did me...

Quote:

This may be a good place to reflect that true moral law is born and exists independently of our judgments in this regard, and even of our ability to recognize it. Thus, the attitude required for such understanding is scientific, not creative: we must humbly subordinate our mind to the apprehended reality. That is when we discover the truth about man, both his weaknesses and values, which shows us what is decent and proper with respect to other people and other societies.

- NonE