check it out if you feel like it

I did post some comments there, partly because the topic was quite tempting, but also because I spent most of the day procrastinating re the stuff that I should actually be doing (writing paper). though that last bit didnt i think affect the content of my comments, more the fact that I made them.

I chose to not bother listening to it or spending energy on it in any way.

Dear GOD! How does he get new listeners?!?!?

Potential Anarchist: Oh, someone sent me a link to that FDR board I've been hearing about...hmm.....What's this..."how FDR is not a cult", "LOL yeah, we're a cult guys" "a proof of free will" "How we are nothing like the randroids" "An aristotelian defense of FDR"....wow ok...um...maybe I'll just check out the videocasts...hmmm ...."Cultwatch" "Cultwatch2" "Seriously, FDR is not a cult" "Stef bludgeons a postmodernist to death" "Seriously nobody has thought of this shit before ever!"....well maybe i'll check the podcasts..... "Stef badgers Jenny and her jennyism"................................I better go make an intro thread

I think it has to do with people who aren't capable of critical thinking, or who have trained themselves to evade truth. And there are *plenty* of both. I am a pretty good thinker but I make many logical mistakes, and I am vigilant about putting truth before self but I still sometimes find that I have lied to myself about something.

It's similar to my surprise over how the US Constitution was ever ratified: the Federalists spewed tons of verbiage about how the state was good and should be bigger, and despite their arguments being illogical or inapplicable or not even arguments (a lot of name calling, etc.), they apparently won the appeal of the masses - maybe because they were read more often, maybe because psychology was used to help make people embarrassed that they disagreed, etc. Stef uses these same techniques. He's a very capable thinker, and he uses subterfuge and hypocrisy and deceit in a way that sounds sometimes correct, sometimes appealing, and sometimes embarrassing not to agree with (and sometimes combinations of these).

So I can see value in exerting energy to debate or combat him or FDR, the same way I can see value in combatting any untruth (especially when it's harmful). But it just makes me too unhappy (disgusted, disappointed, angry, etc.) to deal with Stef. I'd rather put my energy into learning and bettering myself, and possibly into bettering others in a positive arena (i.e., talk with people and progress with new ideas, as opposed to combatting negative ones and thus not progressing or learning).

Checked it out and listened. Pretty much standard deflection to those who challange Stef. Nothing new or original there. The posts on the thread were interesting.. Randomnamex did a good job.

His argument can be summed up thusly:

"I know you are, but what am I?"

I am referring only to the FDR fans who are joining now with Stef's crazyiness in plain sight for all to see. Yes they are being evasive, very evasive. Most of them seem bright but I mean come on, how can people join when their are huge red flags like this latest cult video? I am flabbergasted.

for YouTubers viisting LiberatingMinds. here are some interesting FDR links:

TheMolyneuxProject: a detailed and devastating analysis of Stef's UPB Book. follow the links in the first post in the thread

podcast where Stef argues that FDR'ers who criticise Stef have a slave mentality

Stef argues that FDR'ers should go out into the world to spread the FDR message because they are the only ones who can heal the world

Stef says that people who don't buy FDR merchandise are just afraid to spread the FDR message

example of Stef's brilliant psychological manipulation of his listeners

Stef says that he has sacrificed his career to bring you to happiness

Conrad, good idea to put the links here as a reminder for long-time LiMians and as a primer for neophytes.

normaltim wrote:

I am referring only to the FDR fans who are joining now with Stef's crazyiness in plain sight for all to see. Yes they are being evasive, very evasive. Most of them seem bright but I mean come on, how can people join when their are huge red flags like this latest cult video? I am flabbergasted.

Ah, I see. Yes I agree: it's odd that can people "join" the FDR movement now when cultiness is stronger than ever. But I still think Stef is a capable thinker - he's just intellectually dishonest. So perhaps these new people are, too. Maybe they see something they can get out of FDR and are willing to put up with or ignore the rest, or maybe they have similar tendencies to Stef's: lying to themselves about what they're after (obviously not truth, at least on all accounts).

but we don't know how people who discover and explore FDR nowadays actually go about doing this. I mean, i listened to over 700 podcasts before realizing that something was wrong. Actually, i only joined the FDR board quite late and pretty much directly from that point (joining the board) and interacting with FDR'ers directly did I sense that strange things were going on. it took little over a month from joining the board to the decisive blow with Stef.

so I guess if new people mostly just listen to podcasts in sequence, and only mildly participate on the boards, they may take quite some time before getting a sense of something being wrong. also because pretty much every 'dissenter' has been banned by now

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss FDR as just a cult offhand (as Stef seems to think all such critics do).

However, there is one extremely telling thing that he says. He says that the intellectual argument path has failed miserably. He uses psychology to find that most people reject intellectual arguments because they are afraid for their relationships. If we apply the same generalization to intellectual arguments to psychology, we find it has an even worse track record for solving problems. Maybe Stef was cured, but most psychologists would admit to curing no one. Mental illness is a much bigger problem these days than ever before.

Besides that, people would reject his philosophy for the same reasons they reject libertarian principles, it would strain their relationships (however phony they may be).