with respect, i believe freedom of speech and expression are a fundamental right and i would never suggest otherwise. however, freedom of speech is not absolute. it is subject to limitations for example 'hate speech'. i am extremely uncomfortable with the philosophies of Mr M and FDR and the impact they are having on the young people who become involved. somebody (government/teachers or otherwise) with influence needs to check SM and FDR out. if it is all harmless then no worries??

Hate speech laws are thought crime laws. I do not believe there are any "reasonable" limits on freedom, only on harming others physically or taking their property. You have no "right" not to get offended.

What we who oppose Holy Moly here intend to do is counter his assertions, expose his hypocrisies, and offer a refuge and forum for those who have been cast out or hurt by or otherwise negatively affected by FDR. We oppose, generally (I can't speak for everyone) any kind of coercion or government involvement. The best antidote to speech you don't like is more speech.

You (calculator) obviously aren't familiar enough with the freedom movement, of which Molyneux is lamentably a part, to know that bringing the fist of the state down on him would make a martyr of him and infuse FDR with a degree of legitimacy in the eyes of his target audience that he could never achieve on his merits alone, it would bring a flurry of money, support, attention and many, many new members to his fold from across the internet's panoply of anti-government, pro freedom, anarchist and libertarian communities.

No, an investigation or government crack down would make him stronger. We need not borrow the government's guns, we need only our keyboards and the media to spread the message that the guy is a charlatan, an internet pied piper leading young people away from their families for his financial gain and ego gratification.

To be fair to calculator he/she is speaking from a place of desperation. I don't think ramming unfamiliar libertarian values down ones throat when drowning is helpful or compassionate.

Though I do agree with Dyl's message, perhaps we can teach from a place of compassion.

An excellent point, Exy.

While not countering your point, let me also suggest that fear is a great tool for advancing tyranny as it helps to disable rational thought. So while the compassion is worthy, this is not necessarily a reason for stiffling the rational argument.

Look at the "Patriot Act" as an example. Under a crushing burden of fear, this massive act was passed which no one had even read, granting powers which effectively destroyed the ideals upon which this nation once stood.

Indeed, there appears to be such a level of fear worldwide nowadays that "that which is not mandated is prohibited" seems to be the mindset of the general populace.

The callers on the local radio station discussing the jailing of Ian Freeman (from FreeTalkLive.com) for 93 days for simply asking a question in court were very revealing. So many of these people thought he deserved to be jailed for having the temerity to ask a question.

Just some of my thoughts...

- NonE

Thanks for your attempts to civilize me, Exy. They are welcomed.

- NonE

Looks like DW2 has actually taken parts of the guardian article seriously and was being called a troll. Here is his response
You mean like in this thread? Every single bullet point contains numbers.



Over the course of FDR, we have had about 50,000 fairly consistent listeners.
That generally means potentially 100,000 parents.
If we take that down by 10%, because of death, say, we end up with perhaps 90,000 parents.
I can think of about 20 deFOOs - perhaps there are more, but I can't say for sure.
Each deFOO affects say 2 parents.
Thus 40 parents out of 90,000 parents have been affected by family separation - or 0.044%.
This represents one out of 2,250 parents.
Interestingly, sociopaths apparently comprise 4% of the population.
Out of 90,000 parents, this would mean 3,600 sociopathic parents.
If we assume that separating from a truly sociopathic parent would be emotionally advantageous, then we are far below the average, since only 40 parents have been affected out of 3,600 - or 1.11% of sociopathic parents.


The first four responses to the original post were people assuming that the numbers accurately described the group of listeners. They automatically assumed that the numbers represented data.

And no, I'm not completely nuts--I'm just reacting to things that other people say on this board, in the threads that they say them. But it look like I've been trolling, and I didn't mean to come trolling, and I didn't join to troll, and I don't want to be one, so I'll stop posting.

Sorry.
New Limi member?

Sonia Mansour Robaey
Mr. Molyneux,

My answer is twofold:

1. Facts speak for themselves. Parents have lost children to your cult and you know it and everybody knows it by now.

2. Followers speak better for you than you do for yourself and the best example is that one of them just corrected this strange statement fo yours: ''I am also confused as to why I would applaud those who do manage to improve relations with their parents.'' You are a real cult personality because your followers are fiercely protective of you, of a person who claim to be free and independant and thinking for others.

And I finish my answer with a question: why is that you help young adults in the process of their emancipation ? Normal young adults who don't have psychological vulnerability don't need help in this process.

They signed me out. Read about it here:
http://naturalminds.blogspot.com/2008/11/i-have-been-signed-out-from-free-domain.html

I will be publishing the details soon but the fact is they run out of arguments.

i came here to find answers having read the article in the guardian. why would i have the same knowledge and understanding of FDR as regulars to this site? i have only experienced 'DeFOO' once in my life. i have seen the ongoing devastation it has caused to the family and significant others. i want to shout it from the rooftops and yes if i thought it would help go the top to highlight this. but i 'bow' to the superior knowledge of other members of the site. clearly i do not speak your language. i need answers not criticism. good luck with the campaign to expose this man. but i think you may need more than keyboards!

OOps I took so long "quotin" ...sorry I posted the whole thing on another thread for dissection.