Very interesting video with tie ins to cult behavior

http://thesciencenetwork.org/programs/beyond-belief-candles-in-the-dark/erin-o-hara

The speaker describes several studies that measure trust in economic games. Around the 10 minute point she describes a study where test subjects are primed with information about the other player before the game starts. In games where the subject is primed with information about the trustworthiness of the other player beforehand, the subject is much more likely to persistently maintain the primed evaluation regardless of the actual behavior of the other player. Furthermore the part of the brain that is typically active during these types of games largely shuts down.

This seems to indicate that when people have a preconcieved notion of the trustworthiness of someone else they neurologically stop judging that persons behavior.

see, all you had to do to get a lot of views of this video about some boring neuroscientific research is make a link to cults and FDR. Good job!

;-)

that is an interesting finding though. For some reason the video doesn't play (working on a stupid Mac now with not everything installed), but it will when I get home.
btw, it's stuff like this that last week's neuroeconomics conference was about.

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The state spends all its time telling hero stories and cheating. Now I understand why ~~they do it~~ it works.

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Number of posts: 594 Location: England Registration date: 2008-08-26

Static4367 wrote:

http://thesciencenetwork.org/programs/beyond-belief-candles-in-the-dark/erin-o-hara

The speaker describes several studies that measure trust in economic games. Around the 10 minute point she describes a study where test subjects are primed with information about the other player before the game starts. In games where the subject is primed with information about the trustworthiness of the other player beforehand, the subject is much more likely to persistently maintain the primed evaluation regardless of the actual behavior of the other player. Furthermore the part of the brain that is typically active during these types of games largely shuts down.

This seems to indicate that when people have a preconcieved notion of the trustworthiness of someone else they neurologically stop judging that persons behavior.

The speaker makes interesting points which may explain why loyal, trusting FDR members do not challenge (or even notice?) Stef's bizarre theories or contradictory statements. At the end of the podcast, the speaker mentions linking the research with work on people exhibiting criminal behaviour and young people who make poor choices.

The speaker was referring to young people making poor choices whereby they drift into crime. On FDR, due to their trust in Stefan Molyneux, young people are making poor choices whereby they cut themselves off from their family.

Conrad - perhaps you would have found the video less boring if it had been performed by a former actor, ending each sentence with right? Right? Right?

hey, I didnt even see the video cuz I'm working on a stupid Mac here and the proper stuff likely wasn't installed yet.

Stef's nonstop use of 'right?' is sort of evidence for his trying to frame and lead

Number of posts: 594 Location: England Registration date: 2008-08-26

Conrad wrote:

hey, I didnt even see the video cuz I'm working on a stupid Mac here and the proper stuff likely wasn't installed yet.

Stef's nonstop use of 'right?' is sort of evidence for his trying to frame and lead

My apologies for mis-reading your post. So you hadn't seen the video and you called the research boring without hearing it!

As you correctly say, Stef's use of 'right?' is an example of trying to frame and lead. It's also like a nervous tic, other examples are obsessive eating during podcast conversations, or what sounds like compulsively turning a tap on and off, as in a recent podcast.

Nervous tics like these are often displayed when someone is being deceitful. Notice what he is saying when these tics are displayed. Do you think he is being deceitful at these times?

ExyPhylo wrote:

Stef wrote:

A handy guide to understanding this new approach: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublethink

wikipedia wrote:

Doublethink:
...to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully-constructed lies...

Patience wrote:

Conrad wrote:

hey, I didnt even see the video cuz I'm working on a stupid Mac here and the proper stuff likely wasn't installed yet.

Stef's nonstop use of 'right?' is sort of evidence for his trying to frame and lead

My apologies for mis-reading your post. So you hadn't seen the video and you called the research boring without hearing it!

Yes, that's right.

Quote:

As you correctly say, Stef's use of 'right?' is an example of trying to frame and lead. It's also like a nervous tic, other examples are obsessive eating during podcast conversations

yes! isn't that very odd? his happily chewing along while talking about some of the most personal issues of his listeners. It's kind of disrespectful.
anyway, is he a diabetic or something, that he needs to maintain his sugar level? Or is it a oral fixation kind of thing (we've discussed this before on LM actually)

Quote:

, or what sounds like compulsively turning a tap on and off, as in a recent podcast.

ah, never noticed that

Quote:

Nervous tics like these are often displayed when someone is being deceitful. Notice what he is saying when these tics are displayed. Do you think he is being deceitful at these times?

I don't know if there is a strong correlation.

Says Wikipedia: [edit] Oral fixation
For other uses, see Oral fixation (disambiguation)
An oral fixation (also oral craving) is a fixation in the oral stage of development manifested by an obsession with stimulating the mouth (oral) first described by Sigmund Freud, who thought infants are naturally and adaptively in an oral stage, but if weaned too early or too late, may fail to resolve the conflicts of this stage and develop a maladaptive oral fixation. In later life, these people may constantly "hunger" for activities involving the mouth.

If a child is not fed enough (neglected) or fed too much (over-protected), it may become orally fixated as an adult. It is believed that fixation in the oral stage may have one of two effects. If the child was underfed or neglected, he may become orally dependent and obsessed with achieving the oral stimulation of which he was deprived, learning to manipulate others to fulfill his needs rather than maturing to independence. The overly indulged child may resist growing up and try to return to that state of dependency through crying, acting helpless, demanding satisfaction, and being "needy."

Oral fixations are considered to contribute to over-eating, being overly talkative, smoking addictions, overindulging in sugar, chewing on straws, and even alcoholism (known as "oral dependent" qualities). Other symptoms include a sarcastic or "biting" personality (known as "oral sadistic" qualities).

Number of posts: 594 Location: England Registration date: 2008-08-26

Conrad wrote:

Patience wrote:

As you correctly say, Stef's use of 'right?' is an example of trying to frame and lead. It's also like a nervous tic, other examples are obsessive eating during podcast conversations

yes! isn't that very odd? his happily chewing along while talking about some of the most personal issues of his listeners. It's kind of disrespectful.
anyway, is he a diabetic or something, that he needs to maintain his sugar level? Or is it a oral fixation kind of thing (we've discussed this before on LM actually)

Quote:

, or what sounds like compulsively turning a tap on and off, as in a recent podcast.

ah, never noticed that

Quote:

Nervous tics like these are often displayed when someone is being deceitful. Notice what he is saying when these tics are displayed. Do you think he is being deceitful at these times?

I don't know if there is a strong correlation.

Says Wikipedia: [edit] Oral fixation
For other uses, see Oral fixation (disambiguation)
An oral fixation (also oral craving) is a fixation in the oral stage of development manifested by an obsession with stimulating the mouth (oral) first described by Sigmund Freud, who thought infants are naturally and adaptively in an oral stage, but if weaned too early or too late, may fail to resolve the conflicts of this stage and develop a maladaptive oral fixation. In later life, these people may constantly "hunger" for activities involving the mouth.

If a child is not fed enough (neglected) or fed too much (over-protected), it may become orally fixated as an adult. It is believed that fixation in the oral stage may have one of two effects. If the child was underfed or neglected, he may become orally dependent and obsessed with achieving the oral stimulation of which he was deprived, learning to manipulate others to fulfill his needs rather than maturing to independence. The overly indulged child may resist growing up and try to return to that state of dependency through crying, acting helpless, demanding satisfaction, and being "needy."

Oral fixations are considered to contribute to over-eating, being overly talkative, smoking addictions, overindulging in sugar, chewing on straws, and even alcoholism (known as "oral dependent" qualities). Other symptoms include a sarcastic or "biting" personality (known as "oral sadistic" qualities).

Apologies for repeating the previous discussion on oral fixations.

Well, this gives Stef another chance to blame his mother for something then, but I'd agree with his oral fixations appearing as over-eating, being overly talkative and having

Quote:

a sarcastic or "biting" personality (known as "oral sadistic" qualities).

Patience wrote:

The speaker was referring to young people making poor choices whereby they drift into crime. On FDR, due to their trust in Stefan Molynexux, young people are making poor choices whereby they cut themselves off from their family.

I think the cases probably aren't all that different from the childs perspective. Whether it is the local drug dealer or the snake oil salesman on the internet, the reasons for accepting this person's advice are irrational. In either case the person has been convinced by a given person that he is trustworthy and then, this research suggests, the part of the brain that would be able to reevaluate that trustworthiness largely shuts down.

Guest

Static4367 wrote:

I think the cases probably aren't all that different from the childs perspective. Whether it is the local drug dealer or the snake oil salesman on the internet, the reasons for accepting this person's advice are irrational. In either case the person has been convinced by a given person that he is trustworthy and then, this research suggests, the part of the brain that would be able to reevaluate that trustworthiness largely shuts down.

This statement brings up some thoughts... I have a hard time with the delineation many make between children and adults. I see it as not only a continuum, but also as one with no given end point or standard of measure. What is an adult? I see irrationality all about me, and I must admit that I am probably a good representation of that as well. And with aging comes lack of mental flexibility. Childrens' brains continue to develop for years after they leave the birth canal, and yet some of the most amazing mental creation is performed by small people who are yet to have what might be called fully developed brains. Mozart is just one example. My recent readings have led me to understand that perhaps the very height of human ability is around the age of puberty. All you need to do is to look at a church gathering before a charismatic preacher, or the crowds at the Obama gatherings to recognize that there is not thoughtful, rational examination going on thereabouts.

I just point this out as I think it bears more consideration than is generally given.

- NonE (slipping back under the bridge...)

Good points, I didn't mean to suggest anything by my wording in this context.

Perhaps the reason we often talk this way is because adults are generally locked into the forms of irrationality that they have already accepted, whereas children are susceptible to new forms of irrationality. As you say, with aging comes lack of mental flexibility, which can be either a blessing or a curse depending on what conclusions you have settled on when you start to lose that mental flexibility.

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Very interesting video with tie ins to cult behavior

Very interesting video with tie ins to cult behavior

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