I sometimes wonder if my parents (from whom I defooed) read LiMi, and I wonder if I would recognize them if they posted a letter like this one.

I'm very curious for a deFOO story from the (adult) child's perspective, and especially just how much the influence of Stef mattered in the decision. Would you oblige us?

Thanks!

It is a fine letter. I have one written myself, but haven't decided to post it. Here is my question for Molyneux (and my poor son).

What reason based morality can possibly sanction such sustained, vindictive cruelty to loving parents?

Of course there isn't one. A separation is OK. I suppose it happens in families without Molyneuxs help. Somethimes draconian and permenant. More often a break softens over time and reocnciliation occurs. The defoo thing is as creepy and imbalanced as it gets. It is the celebration of the separation. It is the false and strained jubiliation and then public humiliation of the parents that simply can not be defended on any moral basis.

Now here is some small ray of hope for the defooed on this board. My son's complaints have evolved. My son adored me and I adored him. Up until last spring, when he started getting active on FDR, we still routinely hugged and told each other, "I love you." We had an argument on the wrong topic at exactly the wrong time. We both calmed down and actually talked and planned to get together and hash things out. But it was too late. Molyneux had him.

Now here is a small sign of encouragement for all of us here. He has been facebook texting iwth my daughter. His complaints have evolved. At first I was a tyrant and my wife was corrupt for taking him to church as a child (only a molyneux follower could dredge up that excuse). Then he said his complaint about mom was that she did not protect him from my tyranny ( a favorite Molyneux template). Now he said to my daughter, (who kept pointing out to my son that he was out of his mind suggesting that there was anthing other than a loving and supportive environment). His latest observation to my daughter is that he "always knew' something was wrong with our family. So I offer this evolution of thinking as a small sign that maybe he is beginning to notice his real memories and maybe there is a softening.

But I can't get too encouraged. My daugher, who is 25 and has her act together, still got a little tired of his 'untogether' act. She told my son that she visited FDR and listened to SM. She said she thought he was a loon. That was too much. He did what all cult members do when their leader is attacked. He cut her off now as well. i.e. she is blocked from his face book site. My take is that it will take longer than we would like, but somewhere along the way, he will find his way back.

I am deeply moved by all of the love and concern that everyone on this thread has been expressing for their estranged children. I hope that someday those who have defoo'd will be able to understand all of the love that still patiently waits for them if they will only open themselves to receive it again.

I followed a friend into FDR. This friend persuaded me to estrange myself from various members of my family. This friend then became angry and defoo'd from me. When I felt the pain myself that I had caused to those in my family, I woke up to what I had been doing, and decided that I had to make changes in my life. It's been a mess.

Btw - an update - the reconciliation process with the family members that I estranged myself from is in process. It's going better than I expected.

Oh, ok... in a sense you were both, which explains my confusion. Thank you for clarifying.

Glad to hear ... things are on the mend.

My feelings do dictate reality, the pain I am experiences is very deep, I don't think my child has done this to be cruel or vindictive. So why do I feel that some kind of revenge is taking place? Is it because my child won't contact me again or because Stef just dosen't like parents.

To all the parents here(I am not Molyneux, or a DeFooee, or Defooed).
I don't think any of the parents here are getting their kids back(except for maybe APenny). You guys are trying to get your kids back from a 'cult' which itself classifies your religion and lifestyle as a cult(the cult of organized religion).

The mistake you guys are doing here is to appeal to emotion. Imagine if Stefan was actually a religious cult and he claimed to be a prophet. Is saying 'I hope he is smart enough to see Jesus was the only true prophet and Stefan is the false prophet' is not going to get him back(maybe that approach might work, who knows).
But in reality Stefan builds his 'cult'(if you wanna call it a cult) by bashing all the other cults out there. You cannot sell a better cult to a person who apparently joined a cult which bashes all the other cults.

Stefan's philosophy is based on rationality, but all you guys are doing is appealing to emotion. I am sure you can appeal to emotions and it may work with all the religious cults out there, but Stefan covers all the basis. I don't think you can appeal to emotion of your kids. If you think they are smart enough to to get their way back in, then you are doing even bigger mistake.

Stefan's 'cult'(again if you can call it that) is immune to what works for all the other cults. Remember your kids concluded your religion as a cult WAY before than you concluded your kids are in a cult. When you took them to Church, in their mind you were trying to force them into a cult. So when you call FDR as a cult, and your kids read it they are probably laughing at your face.

So stop using techniques which work for people who join Mormons or Jehovah or Scientology.

You cannot get your kids back as sons and daughters(sure some of them will come back), but if you really want them back try to understand what appealed to them at the first place. They didn't join FDR because they thought Stefan Molyneux is a harbinger of light and creator of the universe or son of god. They joined FDR because they liked logic, reason and rationality.

Hoping to bring them back with your love and compassion is insanity because that's what drove them away at the first place. What you classify as love, they see as emotional blackmail/threats. What you see as compassion they see it as condescension.

If you think your kid was fooled by a cult, well good luck(you are doing the same mistake which drove them away). Look I am not saying your kids are never going to change their mind and never going to come back to who they were. I am just saying if you want them back, you first need to understand the right things they believe in. Before you think how wrong they are, you need to understand how right they are.

They like rationality, and truth. Truth is powerful, if you think Stefan has planted false memories of anal rape by dad, and physical abuse by mom when you did not do any such things then stick to the truth, the false memories will wither away. If you just took them to church and Stefan made it look like you abused your kid by holding him to irrational standard, well then the truth is you did hold him to irrational standards(it maybe a different issue whether your son should consider it as a great evil or not, but the point is) that your son/daughter did consider it as a great evil.
If your kid contacts you in future do not try to go back to things how they were. Its just not going to happen, instead of your son values voluntary relationships then offer him a voluntary relationship. You cannot be their parents anymore. Give them the right to walk out and breakup at any point. Imagine if you met your son and his family in a mall, you know like a nice strangers. Invite them for dinner like you would to any other family friend. Don't say "Oh Billy your mama misses you,please come back home, we are in pain and we are suffering", that's not love according to them, that's emotional blackmailing.

Disclaimer: I like FDR's philosophy, I listen to his podcasts, I like a lot of things he has to say, but I have never talked to him on phone or donated him any money or anything. I am not trying to tell people what to do to get the people who have deFOOed back, but more like what to not do to get them back. I don't like the idea that there is no recourse for the families who have been deFOOed. But your kids haven't become drug addicts that you have to cure them, they have chosen a belief system with which they could live all their lives successfully for all they want.

Its not very common for westerners to understand this thing, but I come from a different culture to America, and you can say that I have deCOO(de-Culture of Origin) myself, I have adopted American cultural values, and my parents may or may not like it when they find out. But it doesn't mean I have joined a cult of Americanism, as much as they would want me to be back in their society, I am happy this way.

Sure its the truth, I am not saying that its not. Its just that the statement has lost its meaning and intention because of the past usage of similar statements.

If your wife tells you 'I will never cheat on you again, please trust me this time', and she cheats on you over and over and over again. Then when you finally leave her, and months later she comes to you and this time really really means it, does that mean you must trust her? OR does that mean the wife must try to show the difference rather than just say those words.

Of course mama misses Billy, but I am just saying that don't bother saying them unless there is an actual trust in your words rather than it being tool of emotional blackmail, because they have lost their meaning.