Honesty is not something that comes from scientific or logical discussion. "truth" is subjective, and can therefore not be objectively defined.

Well not all truth...otherwise that statement would be subjective too...

it is...

darn my lawgic must be untruthful

I think all of you need to gain some perspective before using a derogatory term like cult. http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~sch/beliefs/b-cults.htm

Hi esalian9, welcome to Limi.
(Curious that you should start with such an old post.)

Surely the word 'cult' is not derogatory if indeed that is what fdr has turned into, even if it were not Moly's original intent. Perhaps then it is an apt description? well informed people have described it so.
What I do know for sure is that a well loved and respected family member is now missing since their association with fdr.
Many folk in our family including our missing one have been hurt. Damaging families is not the right thing to do. Helping a family maintain it's links, relationships and associations at the right level is.

Esalian9,

Limi is a wealth of information. Experts on cults have been consulted on more than one occasion, and that information is easy to find. It may be difficult for a newcomer to locate the information, so if you need assistance finding something, please let us know.

In addition to expert opinions and actual evidence being examined, the personal experience of many who frequent this site has been discussed on many, many threads here.

Perspective:

Kids who are willing to leave their families and friends, who they previously had no huge problems with - the problems came after exposure to hours of podcasts.

Kids who are willing to leave homes and live in difficult housing situations - in some cases willing to live in their cars, in cheap motel rooms, or worse, so that they can be "courageous" and do the "virtuous" thing by leaving their foos.

Kids who can barely make ends meet, scraping their money together each month so that they can donate to Molyneux.

Kids who can barely make ends meet, quitting their jobs because after listening to hours of podcasts, they discover that their employer is "corrupt" and quitting is the "virtuous" course of action.

Kids who are taught, also through podcasts, that "school sucks", and so they drop out.

Kids who are students in college, but after listening to hours of podcasts decide that their school is "corrupt", their professors are "corrupt", or their major is not "virtuous" enough. Therefore they drop out and leave themselves with no real prospects for the future except following a radio personality who broadcasts "philosophy" shows from Canada.

That, my friend, is perspective.

Yes, my kids often tell me stories about Einstein and his struggles in school. I don't entirely disagree with you NonE. However, in today's world I suppose we need to consider what will open as many doors as possible for our youth. I would think that the primary goal should be to leave them with as many possibilities and choices as possible for their future. In order to achieve that goal, I'm afraid that diplomas from high school and college are helpful, and in many cases necessary.

But shouldn't that be the choice of the person involved? I see a HUGE problem with the idea of anyone dictating to another what is best for him. Children are inherently learning machines. They don't need to be beaten into submission. They only need freedom to pursue their natural curiosity. They are quite capable of deciding how to best satisfy their own desires for advancing their chosen directions in life. I sure as hell wish I'd never gone to college. It wasted a large part of some of the most productive learning part of my life.

Let me clarify. I have nothing against schools. I have everything against enforced attendance (slavery/incarceration).

- NonE

Well, it seems that stef is gaining some notoriety. It just might not be the kind he wants. Oh well!

http://www.grupthink.com/topic/4987/Share_With_Me_A_Crackpots_Website

He is listed in 4th place but with a little more work he could make it to 1st place and put that award on his website.

Nice one Wendy!

I've just given him my vote too!!