Liberating Minds
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Conrad
Number of posts: 5647
Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands
Registration date: 2007-07-21
 | | Subject: Re: UPB: The slayer slain? Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:45 am | |
| | ExyPhylo wrote: | | Conrad wrote: | | Mr. C.'s reply is good though |
agreed |
actually, I'm not sure anymore: with any moral theory everybody is free just not to follow it. the question whether to follow a moral theory or not is logically distinct from the content of the moral theory. So somebody who follows the moral theory that D4Shawn proposes and then 'stops following that theory' because he wants to and has the power to, would in fact be following the moral theory even though he may think he has denounced it. I'm confused |
| | | | Conrad
Number of posts: 5647
Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands
Registration date: 2007-07-21
| | Subject: Re: UPB: The slayer slain? Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:11 am | |
| where the hell did that thread go on FDR? |
| | | | Guest
Guest
| | Subject: Re: UPB: The slayer slain? Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:14 am | |
| Yo. D4Shawn here.
Let me address the issue that abandoning my ethic is itself an expression of my ethic.
That is true of the short version, but not of the long version. The short version needs to be weeded out of existence. Here is what I consider to be the full version:
"People should do, that which they have both the power and desire to do, WITHOUT REGARD FOR ANY OTHER MORAL CONSIDERATIONS."
Thus, in order to abandon the ethic, one would have to adopt an alternative, and thus would violate the ethic.
Without the ending stipulation, the ethic can be thwarted. However, the full version hasn't been debunked so far. I was debating this on the FDR forums but they have since locked the thread. It's really impossible to debate over there. It just can't be done, without getting blocked or shut out. |
| | | | Guest
Guest
| | Subject: Re: UPB: The slayer slain? Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:15 am | |
| where the hell did that thread go on FDR?
The mysterious Stefan or Greg? |
| | | | Conrad
Number of posts: 5647
Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands
Registration date: 2007-07-21
| | Subject: Re: UPB: The slayer slain? Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:17 am | |
| | ReIgNoFrAdNeSs wrote: | Yo. D4Shawn here.
Let me address the issue that abandoning my ethic is itself an expression of my ethic.
That is true of the short version, but not of the long version. The short version needs to be weeded out of existence. Here is what I consider to be the full version:
"People should do, that which they have both the power and desire to do, WITHOUT REGARD FOR ANY OTHER MORAL CONSIDERATIONS."
Thus, in order to abandon the ethic, one would have to adopt an alternative, and thus would violate the ethic.
Without the ending stipulation, the ethic can be thwarted. However, the full version hasn't been debunked so far. I was debating this on the FDR forums but they have since locked the thread. It's really impossible to debate over there. It just can't be done, without getting blocked or shut out. |
Yo Burbman,
so if I don't want to act in accordance with your theory, then if I 'instead' just do whatever I want it is not really 'instead' because that is exactly what the theory prescribes, and if I instead chose to be held to another moral theory then this would violate your theory, and so the criticism does not apply? that a decent summary?
they locked the thread eh? |
| | | | Guest
Guest
| | Subject: Re: UPB: The slayer slain? Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:22 am | |
| | Quote: |
Yo Burbman,
so if I don't want to act in accordance with your theory, then if I 'instead' just do whatever I want it is not really 'instead' because that is exactly what the theory prescribes, and if I instead chose to be held to another moral theory then this would violate your theory, and so the criticism does not apply? that a decent summary?
they locked the thread eh? |
Yes and yes.
Burbman? |
| | | | Conrad
Number of posts: 5647
Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands
Registration date: 2007-07-21
| | Subject: Re: UPB: The slayer slain? Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:25 am | |
| you burb in your videos. that's your thing. |
| | | | Conrad
Number of posts: 5647
Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands
Registration date: 2007-07-21
| | Subject: Re: UPB: The slayer slain? Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:26 am | |
| see, I would have understood if they had banned you (not agreed with it, but understood), but locking the thread? that also deprives others of discussing the topic. So this, like determinism, is now officially a topic that may not be discussed anymore? |
| | | | Guest
Guest
| | Subject: Re: UPB: The slayer slain? Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:33 am | |
| | Conrad wrote: | | see, I would have understood if they had banned you (not agreed with it, but understood), but locking the thread? that also deprives others of discussing the topic. So this, like determinism, is now officially a topic that may not be discussed anymore? |
The last thread (about me) that I tried to debate on was removed altogether.
They are such sissies over there. There's this whole culture of coddling over there. Unless you kiss ass while everyone else acts like a bunch of passive-aggressive babies, then... it's pretty much impossible to even make a counter argument without violating the "please don't hurt my feelings by proving me wrong" rule. It's such a manipulative and tightly controlled environment (emotionally and intellectually).
That's not saying that I'm not (on occasion) aggressive and rude. |
| | | | Conrad
Number of posts: 5647
Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands
Registration date: 2007-07-21
| | Subject: Re: UPB: The slayer slain? Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:39 am | |
| dude, even if you do kiss their ass, are super-polite or whatever they won't respond to tough arguments in any serious way. They will either be so evasive and passive-aggressive that eventually you get pissed and show it and then they ban you on the basis of that, or if you remain polite they will just ask you to stop posting.
there is no way to do it right |
| | | | Guest
Guest
| | Subject: Re: UPB: The slayer slain? Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:43 am | |
| | Conrad wrote: | dude, even if you do kiss their ass, are super-polite or whatever they won't respond to tough arguments in any serious way. They will either be so evasive and passive-aggressive that eventually you get pissed and show it and then they ban you on the basis of that, or if you remain polite they will just ask you to stop posting.
there is no way to do it right |
Yeah. I don't know how people can stand it. It's just so weird. There's this unspoken rule that you're not allowed to point out the obvious. When someone evades your argument, you're not allowed to say, "Hey, you keep evading my argument". If you do, you'll get banned or the thread will be removed. It kinda gives me the willies. |
| | | | Guest
Guest
| | Subject: Re: UPB: The slayer slain? Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:46 am | |
| I do feel though, that my "work" (i.e. my silly videos making fun of and debunking stef) are having an impact. People are starting threads about this stuff, and asking stef real questions. I know this forum has had the same effect. Everything is catching up to him. It also seems that the more full of crap people realize he is, the more full of crap he becomes. |
| | | | Conrad
Number of posts: 5647
Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands
Registration date: 2007-07-21
| | Subject: Re: UPB: The slayer slain? Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:47 am | |
| | ReIgNoFrAdNeSs wrote: | | Conrad wrote: | dude, even if you do kiss their ass, are super-polite or whatever they won't respond to tough arguments in any serious way. They will either be so evasive and passive-aggressive that eventually you get pissed and show it and then they ban you on the basis of that, or if you remain polite they will just ask you to stop posting.
there is no way to do it right |
Yeah. I don't know how people can stand it. |
oh, people stand it
excessive emotional investment is the key term here
| Quote: | | It's just so weird. There's this unspoken rule that you're not allowed to point out the obvious. When someone evades your argument, you're not allowed to say, "Hey, you keep evading my argument". If you do, you'll get banned or the thread will be removed. It kinda gives me the willies. |
and they'll likely (unless somebody like Jacob asks about it) just go about their business as usual as if nothing happened and the argument was never presented or as if Stef's rebuttal was never itself rebutted (or at the very least that a serious counterargument was made) |
| | | | Conrad
Number of posts: 5647
Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands
Registration date: 2007-07-21
| | Subject: Re: UPB: The slayer slain? Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:49 am | |
| yeah, that video by Aaron, saying that basically no market anarchist on YouTube still likes Stef or FDR while they used to do so a lot, was good to hear. Perhaps even LibertyIsNotGiven has now seen the ugly side |
| | | | Conrad
Number of posts: 5647
Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands
Registration date: 2007-07-21
| | Subject: Re: UPB: The slayer slain? Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:54 am | |
| | ReIgNoFrAdNeSs wrote: | | I do feel though, that my "work" (i.e. my silly videos making fun of and debunking stef) are having an impact. People are starting threads about this stuff, and asking stef real questions. I know this forum has had the same effect. Everything is catching up to him. It also seems that the more full of crap people realize he is, the more full of crap he becomes. |
yeah, e.g. the thing about 'rights don't exist' and 'proving property rights' seemed quite bizarre and his recent debates... any neutral person watching those realizes Stef is full of feces. He's not even subtle in his debating techniques anymore and it becomes quite impossible to understand what he actually is saying still. |
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