http://freedomainradio.com/board/forums/t/20465.aspx?PageIndex=1

Please take a look at this thread again, which has wildly evolved over the past few days. It has become a lynchfest against teachers. Stef and his lynch mob are accusing ALL teachers of being corrupt and evil.

I am new to Libertarianism, but I feel that this is a gross generalization. I understand the problems with the teacher's unions, the public school system, and all of that. Yes, there are bad teachers and good teachers in every setting, but ALL teachers EVERYwhere, evil and corrupt?

Granted, I am a teacher, and by virtue of that fact may render myself unworthy of being listened to in this matter, but I still must speak up by letting you know what I have experienced in my first years of teaching.

It is pointless to focus on the subject matter that one is charged with teaching, when the students in one's classroom are lacking in basic necessities, so teachers need to be in tune with the needs of their students. In my own first years I have personally experienced buying necessary uniform supplies for needy students, finding funds to pay for trips for students who could not do so themselves, and purchasing many basic school supplies for students. I have personally delivered food to student's families who are in need, and have delivered holiday gifts and clothing to needy student families as well (all gifts and clothing provided by "evil" and "corrupt" teachers).

I have brought together members of rival gangs, and convinced them to work peacefully together in my classroom. I have spent numerous hours counseling teenage mothers, and have been a confidant for students who are experiencing abuse at home and have nowhere else to turn. I have advocated with other teachers for students who are having trouble in their classes. I have personally helped students gain acceptance into prestigious schools, and have helped students gain entry into colleges on full scholarships.

This while maintaining knowledge in my subject area and working on a masters degree, so that the kids also receive instruction in my area that is the best I can possibly give.

This is not all about me, but about countless teachers in many schools. I had to speak from my own experience in order to present facts that I knew first hand to be true, but you see, if you go into any school, you will no doubt find a handful of teachers who are doing the exact same things. Yes, the bad teachers are out there. That is a fact. But there are good teachers in the trenches every day, who sincerely strive to do what is right for the students. That fact should not be forgotten.

They really go in for absolutes and sweeping judgments against whole collections of people. That's what I like to call, collectivist thinking, or just plain bigotry. Now, they'll say these people made immoral choices by working for a state school, and they may be right from their own subjective set of moral values, but man, you'd think they'd be a little more cautious, given the supposed libertarian philosophical underpinnings of FDR. Is generalized condemnation of whole professions and classes of people really UPB?

There are many creepy angles to that thread. Not least the whole "everything Stef does for us," for "people's minds to be improved through his ideas," and then Dave Bockman is just a passive aggressive asshole. But then, he learned from the master, Mr. Molyneux. His whole "if you're going to discuss your subjective interpretations..." blah, blah, blah was so obnoxious. He got called out on telling the kid to shut up and keep his head down, but rather than acknowledge it and defend his position (which, actually, may -or may not- be decent advice), he reverted to that standard issue FDR "let's discuss our feelings, why did you say what you said the way you said it?" crap.

Dylboz - the lil guy throwing up - the perfect sentiment. I think you said it perfectly when you used the word "bigotry".

Some FDR members are teachers e.g. David Kopp and Paul Crowder/Nexalacer. (added name)

The Young One herself has posted in the thread as Greermakesvideos. (corrected username)

Conrad,
I like my job. I feel like I have the best job in the world
because I get to work within a subject that I adore (music), and at the same time bring about positive change in the lives of young people. Yes, in direct opposition to FDR followers on this thread, I do believe in change, and in positive change in the lives of people.

What has been interesting to me throughout this whole nasty FDR experience is the following observation:

I do not reserve acts of kindness only for people who meet certain criteria in my mind (i.e. believe a certain way religiously, politically, or whatever).

I extended kindness to certain members of FDR, without caring about whether or not we had certain beliefs in common.

But those same FDR members refused to extend the same courtesy to me. Their bigotry prevented them from seeing me as anything other than a person who was different from how they thought I should be.

What a shame. By assuming that noone is worthwhile except those who share their same belief system, they are missing out on valuable human relationships.

RoR - Absolutely. We have to work within the confines of the world that we have. Sometimes change is affected from within the system as well as from the outside, don't you think? I, as an individual, certainly have no power to change the entire public school system, but I can certainly go in and make the lives of my students within the system much more pleasant. I can make my contribution toward making sure that their education is as beneficial as possible.

Patience - That is interesting to know. I don't remember if they weighed in on this conversation. Will check it out.

Nelle, like you, there are many good teachers who are trying to help their young students. I wonder if any of them will take part in Stef's conference call in a few hours (10 EST). I'm guessing eflon will take part. I wish him luck.

The sad part is that Stef is such an excellent (manipulative) debator, that anyone who would dare to go there with genuinely good intent (as a teacher trying to do well with students) would be destroyed.

Yes - she is a cute girl. It bothers me that the person she goes to for help in this matter is Stef. Perhaps she needs a role model in her life with more integrity.

Yep. 12. cute as in LITTLE girl. RoR. You is very silly me thinks.