Liberating Minds
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| | Lef-libertarian anarchist here |  |
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youngcynic
Number of posts: 31
Registration date: 2009-10-05
| | Subject: Lef-libertarian anarchist here Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:01 pm | |
| Hey. So not long after I got into anarchy I found Stef's debate with a minarchist and was impressed by his political and economic prowess. His hyper-active speech and the way he peppered it with irrelevant and dumb analogies sort of turned me off but the minarchist was by far the dumber one.
Anyway, eventually I read about the "Defooing" process and lost respect for him. In reading an overview of the critiques of his work I found this forum. I hope this forum takes off both as an independent philosophy forum and a check on FDR developing cult-like tendencies. |
| | | | Bigus Dickus
Number of posts: 369
Location: Brazil
Registration date: 2008-06-05
| | Subject: Re: Lef-libertarian anarchist here Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:46 pm | |
| welcome
I'd say more but I'm tired |
| | | | QuestEon
Number of posts: 842
Registration date: 2008-03-25
| | Subject: Re: Lef-libertarian anarchist here Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:27 pm | |
| | youngcynic wrote: | | Hey. So not long after I got into anarchy I found Stef's debate with a minarchist and was impressed by his political and economic prowess. His hyper-active speech and the way he peppered it with irrelevant and dumb analogies sort of turned me off but the minarchist was by far the dumber one. |
Welcome!
Fairly accurate review, I think.
| youngcynic wrote: | | Anyway, eventually I read about the "Defooing" process and lost respect for him. In reading an overview of the critiques of his work I found this forum. I hope this forum takes off both as an independent philosophy forum and a check on FDR developing cult-like tendencies. |
I do enjoy the first part--there is a wide range of philosophical thought expressed here.
I'm not sure about the continued role of LiMi in checking FDR. I don't know all of the particulars, but I think LiMi was born when FDR literally took a left turn into Crazy a couple of years ago. It was particularly hard on some folks who had previously respected both Molyneux's thinking and character. Those who left FDR at the time gravitated here.
But it seems to me like a number of them have shaken off the dust from Molyneux and are focusing elsewhere--and good for them.
For me personally, I never get tired of FDR and never cease to be amazed how people fail to see beneath the surface, to see Molyneux's true character. More important--as you and I both suspect--to see his pretty deep and serious psychological issues.
At times I think FDR is hilarious. KarenX and I were laughing at this thread the other day, because FDR members just can't see how much of the psychology in that silly article is being used on them. When wispaintstyle asks "people fall for this stuff?" you just want to pat him on the forehead and say, "yes, yes I believe they do."
I get very sad sometimes at what appears to be the increasing number of people joining FDR and defooing their families months later.
Despite the fact that there are a number of places on the internet--from wikipedia on--casting serious doubt on Molyneux, the number of people who read his books, listen to his podcasts, and allow themselves to be seduced into leaving their families seems to be growing. Your letter to him, which was a kind and courageous thing to do, probably won't be able to pierce through his self-adulation at this point.
I agree with you that there should be some place where there is ongoing dialogue about FDR. My little blog gets a lot of hits regularly, but it doesn't keep up with ongoing FDR occurrences very well and I like to bounce ideas off people. Half of what I know about FDR I learned at FDR and the other half I learned from people here.
I think there should be some kind of warning--some kind of little detour on one's way into the FDR indoctrination process that helps people apply logic and reason before they get swept into the emotional current of FDR.
This is just my opinion, but I don't know if LiMi wants to be that place these days. If I'm right, there could be any number of reasons. One is that Molyneux has worked very hard to marginalize LiMi as nothing more than an "FDR hate site." I hate to admit it, but I think to some degree that has worked. Despite the fact that I've met the kindest and most interesting people I know here, LiMi sometimes doesn't have the greatest reputation among libertarian sites because there are always Stefantologists lurking about who won't hesitate to continue Molyneux's libel. As a result, it takes a little courage to hang out here, because you have to put up with being branded as "one of those LiMi people" from time to time. It makes me sad to think that.
Anyway, there's a strange and rambling welcome for you! It's good to meet you. |
| | | | Patience
Number of posts: 594
Location: England
Registration date: 2008-08-26
| | Subject: Re: Lef-libertarian anarchist here Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:27 pm | |
| | QuestEon wrote: | | youngcynic wrote: | | Hey. So not long after I got into anarchy I found Stef's debate with a minarchist and was impressed by his political and economic prowess. His hyper-active speech and the way he peppered it with irrelevant and dumb analogies sort of turned me off but the minarchist was by far the dumber one. |
Welcome!
Fairly accurate review, I think.
| youngcynic wrote: | | Anyway, eventually I read about the "Defooing" process and lost respect for him. In reading an overview of the critiques of his work I found this forum. I hope this forum takes off both as an independent philosophy forum and a check on FDR developing cult-like tendencies. |
For me personally, I never get tired of FDR and never cease to be amazed how people fail to see beneath the surface, to see Molyneux's true character. More important--as you and I both suspect--to see his pretty deep and serious psychological issues.
At times I think FDR is hilarious. KarenX and I were laughing at this thread the other day, because FDR members just can't see how much of the psychology in that silly article is being used on them. When wispaintstyle asks "people fall for this stuff?" you just want to pat him on the forehead and say, "yes, yes I believe they do." |
Welcome to LiMi.
To follow what QuestEon was saying about psychology being used on FDR, Stef has been using marketing psychology ideas on his members for several years and has been interviewed by Paul Colligan:
http://www.paulcolligan.com/2007/08/21/a-minimum-of-36k-a-year-in-podcast-donations/
Unfortunately, it's not just their money he's after. |
| | | | Guest
Guest
| | Subject: Re: Lef-libertarian anarchist here Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:45 pm | |
| I found Stef's debate with a minarchist and was impressed by his political and economic prowess.
I have yet to be convinced that Stefan Molyneux understands much about politics or economics that couldn't be found on a Libertarian party pamphlet - and most of that is wrong, anyway. |
| | | | Conrad
Number of posts: 5647
Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands
Registration date: 2007-07-21
| | Subject: Re: Lef-libertarian anarchist here Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:38 pm | |
| yeah, it's odd and somewhat disconcerting to think about the fact that even though Stefan's hypocrisy and badness and manipulation has been exposed time and time again, there simply is a constant stream of new people who start to become interested in FDR and then slowly get sucked in and abandon their family and/or friends. I mean, I check the FDR boards still and there are new defoo stories all the time. i guess my point is that despite the fact (or great likelihood) that FDR will never become what Stefan wanted it to become (a movement, a real force that will change the world) and will not become much bigger than what it is now, still it means that hundreds of people will continue to be affected by it. |
| | | | T.E.M.
Number of posts: 281
Registration date: 2008-12-04
| | Subject: Re: Lef-libertarian anarchist here Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:08 am | |
| | vichy wrote: | I found Stef's debate with a minarchist and was impressed by his political and economic prowess.
I have yet to be convinced that Stefan Molyneux understands much about politics or economics that couldn't be found on a Libertarian party pamphlet - and most of that is wrong, anyway. |
It is pretty impressive though that he managed to avoid admitting he didn't know enough about Austrian econ to make any judgements about whether he agrees with it for several years; (I forget the exact wording and date of his admission, but its somewhere on the FDR board) and by that point it didn't even seem to bother his followers that he'd been endorsing Austrian econ for years and suddenly backtracked to saying he didn't know enough about it to agree or disagree.
Master of obfuscation indeed... on the other hand, his "ruthless empiricist," views never really jived with Austrian econ so well anyhow...
What he has talent for, is being the opposite of the "iceberg,"-- the modest person who only shows a bit of talent on the surface but in fact is has very deep, well developed thought. Molyneaux is the "zeppelin," impressive on the surface, but in fact only full of so much hot air; and like one particular famous zeppelin, it looks like he might be on a course to go out in a burst of flames (figuratively speaking of course). |
| | | | Conrad
Number of posts: 5647
Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands
Registration date: 2007-07-21
| | Subject: Re: Lef-libertarian anarchist here Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:16 am | |
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