According to the DSM-IV-TR, here is the definition of a Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD). After listening to hundreds of podcasts (including the Sunday call-in shows), watching many videos and having read all the books, I believe Stefan Molyneux exhibits almost all these criteria but I would be interested in other people's thoughts as well, keeping in mind only 5 of the criteria need to be met in order to qualify for this diagnosis. A therapist friend referred me to the following website. (All bolds are mine)

http://outofthefog.net/Disorders/NPD.html

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DSM-IV-TR Criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is listed in the American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic & Statistical Manual (DSM-IV-TR) as an Axis II, Cluster B (dramatic, emotional, or erratic) Disorder: A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following: 1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements) 2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love 3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions) 4. requires excessive admiration 5. has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations 6. is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends 7. lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others 8. is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her 9 .shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

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So, when you combine the narcissistic personality with the 'culty' atmosphere? That could make one hell of a destructive (toxic) combination.

Also, I find it difficult to believe that Christina (with all her professional psychological training) does not recognize the following traits in her husband, as the website pretty explicitly describes what it's like to live with someone with NPD. I've listed only a few for the sake of space.

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What it feels like to live with someone with NPD Contributed by Aames Living with or being involved with a narcissist can be mentally and emotionally exhausting. It can feel like you have to perform "mental gymnastics" from dealing with the lying (even when confronted with undeniable proof ), the gaslighting, the triangulation, the projection, the constant contradictions, the manipulation, blame-shifting, the charm they lay on, the inflated sense of self - even subtle forms of torture, such as sleep depravation these people inflict on their victims - appears to be conscious and calculated to push the target of their "affections" past their limits, into surrender - and ultimately into total compliance - as a source of Narcissistic Supply. Children, spouses, friends, lovers - those closest to the Narcissist - are not considered individuals in their own right by the Narcissist - but rather extensions or, in the worst cases, the property of the Narcissist. More than any other disorder on the PD spectrum, narcissists are like psychological vampires, attaching themselves to you in a way that drains you of your resources (emotional, mental and financial) and leaves you questioning your own worth and sanity. Often, narcissists are able to imitate or approximate caring about others when it is convenient for them to do so. However, they typically do not perceive that anything outside of their own sphere of wants and needs matters. It simply doesn't occur to them to consider the needs of anyone else, or the long-term consequences of their own behaviors. Narcissists can be highly intelligent, witty, talented, likable, and fun to be around. They can also elicit sympathy like nobody's business. Narcissists are opportunistic. They can make a show of being "generous" but their generosity usually has strings attached. They tend to isolate their victims, sucking up their time and energy, many times robbing their own families, spouses and partners of an external support system. Narcissists are excellent liars and many prefer to lie even when telling the truth would be more beneficial to them; which suggests that lying is a hallmark of this pathology. They are often highly competitive and argumentative. They lash out when presented with opinions that contradict their own or when confronted with their own lies or bad behaviors. They can be calculating and extremely persuasive, as well as susceptible to erratic thinking and impulsive decision making.

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If someone is still unsure whether or not they are dealing with a narcissist the website provides the following:

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Here are some other feelings that you may experience when dealing with a narcissist in the home or at work: • You may feel like this person readily puts you down just to elevate themselves. • You may find yourself avoiding them because trying to communicate with them leaves you feeling confused, put-down, reduced to a lesser status and emptied of all that you know you really are. • You may feel overwhelmed, "out-gunned", tongue-tied or overpowered in the presence of this person. • You may feel blown away by their powerful personality, self-assuredness, self-belief and self-confidence. • Your own legitimate needs may be taking a back seat to their own frivolous , self-serving ambitions. • When receiving a compliment or apology, you may be left feeling patronized, demeaned, brought down to size and even humiliated. • You may attempt to compromise with them only to realize later that you are the only one who gave any substantial ground. • You may feel like your hard work and contributions are only being used, abused and and distorted to meet the selfish ambitions of another. Living with a person who has NPD can have a devastating effect on the self-esteem, confidence and quality of life for family members, friends and partners. People who live with an individual with NPD sometimes feel as though the Narcissist is refusing to " grow up" or will revert back to childish ways whenever it suits them to do so. The Non-Narcissist often feels used, cheated and taken advantage of by the NPD in their life.

Sorry for the length. Would sincerely appreciate other people's thoughts on this.

he is undoubtedly a narcissist and virtually all criteria fit to some significant extent.

the only set of criteria that I have too little information about to assess whether they fit (and I even have some speculative doiubts that they do) are the ones under "what it feels like to live with somebody with NPD"

I found the third category "feelings that you may experience when dealing with somebody with NDP" very interesting. had not really considered that before, but it also fits very well

Those are interesting thoughts Wendy. I don't think NPD could be genetic, could it? Although how could being raised in a household where a parent has NPD affect a child? That is a fascinating question that I would like to hear more about.

Those are good questions nelle. Unfortunately, according to the website and the DSM-IV-TR:

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NPD Possible Causes The causes for NPD are not precisely known

and

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NPD Treatment There is no known cure for NPD. People who suffer from NPD rarely seek out treatment or therapy, since they tend to project negative thoughts and blame onto others. They are often resistant to treatment. As a result, families of people who suffer from NPD are often left to fend for themselves and rely on their own resources.

This is very disheartening and troubling to me.

This thread could use a refresh. In one of my discussions with Joe Szimhart, he mentioned that virtually ALL cult leaders are total narcissists. He went through a substantial list of cults through the ages and described each leader's characteristics that confirmed that they all had NPD. NPD is the primary explanation for why the thought reform methods that we regular folks find so appalling and mystifying come so "naturally" to an NPD guy like Moly.

This topic always reels me in.

I'm reluctant to go too far publicly into this area because it's easy to call "BS!" on someone with no clinical expertise trying to diagnose someone he's never met. But if my life depended on the bet, I'd have to say that Molyneux is textbook, clinical narcissist all the way.

I exchanged a few e-mails with a PhD in psychology that I met on-line. He would also bet on narcissism and sent me some additional information on the disorder (vs. psychopath disorder; I wasn't sure if Molyneux was one or the other). So far, the more I learn about narcissism the more it clearly seems to apply here.

One of the Quickies! I snuck in this weekend (it wasn't originally on my site) is on this subject. It's a polished-up version of a post I made here once. The article is called It's a good forum.

I had found this article where the author made a clarifying brilliant explanation--if you can understand the traits of a six-year old, you can understand what it's like to live under the dominion of an adult narcissist. She brought the connection home through the example provided by an old Twilight Zone episode called "It's a good life." That was a "now I really get it" moment for me.

Incidentally, I was watching TV this weekend and some documentary on cults came on. I only half-watched it as it was yet another exploration of the Jonestown massacre. I know that sensationalist stuff is fun for TV but showing pictures of dead bodies lying all around doesn't actually teach us anything about destructive cults. And it keeps people from understanding the very wide variety of destructive cults that actually exist out there. However, at one point the narrator talked about how Jim Jones had grown up unable to form any kind of attachments to his parents and how that is common in cult leaders.

Some say that the seeds of narcissism can be sown by "extreme" child-rearing, either excessive pampering or neglect. Like Jones, Molyneux clearly falls into the latter camp. I wonder what percent of cult leaders are also in that group?

One more thought occurred to me while I was writing this. I know I tend to give the "cult of family" people a good smack-down whenever they use that phrase, but I can think of one narrow sense in which it is accurate--a family with an extreme narcissist parent. The author who wrote about "It's a good life" was trying to get at that.

I only bring it up because I've started thinking about Izzy.

Despite what Molyneux says about his parenting, the ugly truth is that a Narcissist just can't turn it on and off. If you are one, then that's what you are all the time. And if you are one, the very last thing you should be is a parent. As we conjecture about the FreeDomain Radio "community," there is also the teeny little Molyneux cult growing inside Stefan's house. A house with a man inside who insists on constant praise and treats the absence of that praise as an insult. The odds are so heavily stacked against Izzy walking away from there 18 years from now with no trauma. It's sad, really.

I'd be wary of anyone who, on the one hand recounts harrowing tales of abuse growing up and claims to score an 8/10 on the A.C.E test, but on the other hand claims to have, with just 2 years of therapy rather late in his life, ridded himself of all significant psychological issues.

I was listening to podcasts 1252 and 1308 this morning, and a few things he said weirded me out.

In 1308 he was talking about how he was a good 15x more massive than Isabella the infant, and how he must have seemed like a god to her. (Larger-than-life, having to depend on him for her every need...) It's certainly an interesting thought on the potential origin of supernatural beliefs in humans, and to his credit the next thing he said was that it made him realize what a light touch is needed with babies. But still, something about the way he talked about feeling like a god to her creeped me out. He even used the word "worship."

Second, Christina spent a significant chunk of both podcasts talking about breastfeeding Isabella (for the better part of the day and night, apparently) and about the depth of the bond they had formed (she didn't say this, but likely due to the oxytocin released during breastfeeding). Stefan made it apparent in his joking way that he was jealous of both directions of this bond. i.e. he wanted to be the center of attention of both females' lives.

At one point I think he broke into a "joking" narcissistic rant about how little attention he was getting. (I THINK followed by a "delete this" instruction that clearly wasn't followed.) (I really should go back and listen for the exact quotes, eh?) Now, if this had been anyone else he probably would have called that joking rant a mecosystem voice trying to make itself heard (and in Stefan's case we know that humour is one of his defense mechanisms), but nooo, apparently with Stefan a joke is just a joke.

It's far from the first time I've heard Stefan say something unacceptable by his own standards to Christina, getting away with it by putting it in a joking tone. All I can say is I'm so glad I don't have to deal with that in real life. Actually, I just wouldn't put up with it.

I have mentioned this before. At the depths of my despair over my son's defoo a few years ago, I asked a family friend who is a real Doctor therapist to listen to one of Moly's interviews with my son (post defoo). The net of it is this. She listened to Moly for an hour as he manipulated, bullied, insulted and generally took my son further into the abyss. She had no doubt that, at the least, Moly suffered from Narcissistic Personality Disorder. She was unable to eliminate bipolar disorder, but could not offer a firm opinion on that. In other words:

At a minimum, Moly is a clinical narcissist. At most, he has more serious mental problems.

As for me, she also strongly suggested that I NOT listen to that interview ever again.

She also made the obvious observation Moly was going to learn a few things now that he is a parent. She had a great line: "I have high hopes for Isabella."

Arthur, after seeing this and other posts of yours, you've made it pretty obvious that you don't believe your son is capable of thinking for himself.

You don't think that might have anything to do with why he left?

Yes. He takes a fuzzy thing and makes it black and white. My initial impression was that he is more prone to catch rational people. Because he seems to be more so than many many other sources i read. For example: many libertarian writers are religious, while many religious writers are leftists. People from the skeptics movement are a bit smug. Each while doing a great job at promoting their topics. Real scientists are also often religious, and often not that much into science. So basically I was happy to find a place that combined many ideas I held dear.

Turns out my approach was different from most other FDR people I had contact with, so the above explanation is wrong.

Normal people are good at ignoring ideas that are out of line. They just do not listen. Real great minds probably see through the manipulation. That leaves the minds that are searching for something without having good thought habits established. A few are in the bandwidth that FDR appeals too while many others end up in all kinds of different world explaining groups.

It is clear that there is abuse going on between closed doors, and it is also clear that the concept of abuse will change over time.

I recommend: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SocietyMarchesOn und ValuesDissonance - while warning that TVTropes can be a massive time sink.

It is imaginable that excessive shouting at kids will be seen as punishable abuse in a few decades.

Arthur, after seeing this and other posts of yours, you've made it pretty obvious that you don't believe your son is capable of thinking for himself.

Not clear how you came to infer a knowledge of my internal thoughts about my son's ability to think for himself. I will say that he was quite the independent thinker before I recommended that he might like listening to " this guy up in Canada who does interesting libertarian podcasts" and before Moly interviewed me (at the request of my son), as an example of a great parent.

All defenders of any cult put forth the 'Free will'/ independent thinking argument. It has some merit and to a some extent, I agree with it. If you want to be in a cult, in the end, it is your choice, no matter how you came to the decision. The huge caveat for cults is in the area of THOUGHT REFORM. No one is immune. Actually bright, intelligent and passionate people are most susceptible. I won't go any further on this subject, because it would take too long. Also not sure if you are inclined to process the explanation I remember the days before the Molyneux's infected our family. Pre-FDR, I would have been inclined to offer up the line of thinking you offer in your post. Now that it has happened to us, I find it is too much work to try and explain Thought Reform and its impact on free will to someone with your point of view. I am reminded of Marshall McLuhan's famous quote: We don't know who first discovered water, but we know it wasn't a fish.

If I am mistaken, and you do have some curiosity on the subject, there is a lot of easy to access material on 'Thought Reform'. Or you can visit FDR Liberated. Questeon does an excellent job on the subject without even mentioning the term.