it is often taken as a given that teenagers will rebel against their parents, school, religion and authority in general. This is often attributed to hormonal changes and the results thereof.

I think it may be the case that both of these points are untrue. That is, that teenage rebellion is not a normal state of affairs and that where it does occur it is largely the result of hormonal stuff.
(Stef has made me see some of these things, but I also think I'm adding something to the mix)

teenagers are locked in prisons we call state (and most private) schools for 7 or 8 hours a day. They also have to do 2 hours of homework every day. They are not asked what they find interesting, they are not stimulated nor do they have the possiblity to follow their own interests, to develop their talents. Their teachers are often of low quality, they are stuck in a class room listening to somebody talk about something that they don't care about or don't see the importance of, they are not encouraged to ask fundamental questions, they live in schools that often resemble Lord of the Flies type situations with bullying, peer pressure and so on. And they know that they have to stay in this environment for years to come.

Because their time and energy is consumed by school stuff and because they have never experienced following their own intellectual or practical or other interests and working on them (except for in the hours that they dont have to do school work or have sopcial obligations) they will simply not develop the natural capacity to get excited about something and pursue it or to think independently and rationally. They are being prepared to become just another bolt in the machinery that is society.

This is a rather horrible state of affair and because teenagers often instinctively feel that what they are experiencing is not right but they don't know how to rationally question it, they will start to rebel; against it. Because their intellects are not very developed and because they will develop a hatred of intellectual stuff based on what they experience in school they will rebel in more superficial areas such as clothing or hair style, music they listen to, drugs, skipping school, sports and so on. They may develop extsntsive knowledge and interest in for example music or movies or whatever because they do have a proto-capavcity to follow their opwn interests but they canh only do so in often rather superficial areas.

It's like they have this energy that wants to be used for all sorts of wonderful things, they are bursting and boiling with it, but somebody - the general culture - has put a lid on the pan and there has to be a release somehow and then it comes in the form of rebelliousness, of hatred for authority and so on rather than as the joyous journey to develop and follow one's interests and love to learn.


pardon the very poor quality of writing and the exagerated nature of the above, but does it make sense somehow?


superficiality

I find this really fascinating and it resonates with me. It does make sense. But I am not in a mood to post more now. Sorry. Hopefully later. Anyone else?

Good post. It's a shame that most teens don't learn to fully understand the hypocrisy that surrounds them. Then they could rebel more constructively.

I live right next to a high school. Sometimes when I walk past kids I feel like saying, "Dudes! You're in a prison! Wearing black won't help; try reading about anarcho-capitalism!" But if I did that they'd think I was a nut and ignore me.

Conrad,


This sounds familiar

ah, you're just begging for some credit eh?

I have no idea how I spent my time in high school, I mean, I lived in a complete intellectual void

and didnt find anything interesting (until the point where this one teacher started to give after school philosophy classes. I contacted him 2 years ago or so to thank him for that (and for the kind of person he was) & he remembered me!)

This is interesting to me as we have taken in two teenagers. One is fifteen and has been with us for two years now. Her brother, fourteen has recently joined us, again, and hopefully this time for good.
They are both in school, but this is only because they want to be. We un-school our eight year old, and that is an option for them as well.
What i have found with teenagers is that they desire to be able to ask questions and be in control of their own autonomy. The thing is that they have never been taught how to do this constructively.
At our house we do not punish the kids, and we are getting amazing results for it. I feel that if we were to punish (intent to make suffer) that it would immediately sever the bond that we have. Or at least some of the bond.
I keep having conversations with the school, about not punishing these kids because it will only make things very difficult for them. The schools says that they don't until they fall back in to auto-teacher and start doling out the detentions. I like to rebel for the teenagers...We also listen to all kinds of music, which might otherwise be considered taboo. There's no rebelling when there is nothing to rebel against or with. Heavy metal and piercings? Well, that doesn't bother us one bit. By the way, neither of them have put holes in their body yet...this may be good news.

I came home with an earring once when I was 16. My dad said, "son, why on earth would you want to confuse your gender like that?" Later that same year, I came home with two more. See what that kind of talk gets you?

I never practiced the school material very seriously and still got good grades so I did a lot whatever I wished which didn't include much but playing games. I have always been a nerd of science and computation and games(role playing games, tabletop games, computer games, card games). I never went to pre-K and have always been a science geek even as a young kid. I am still very engaged in intellectual and very interesting past times.

I still shit lazy though so school did a whole lot of harm to my drive to produce for myself.

Hi everyone, I know this is an old post I am replying to. I am a father of seven children, I am divorced and single again. I have been reading Alice Miller's books and they are resonating with me very much. I am reading books like this to gain more insight into myself. As a side effect I am also learning about others. I was drawn to this forum originally through a google search for Alice Miller's other books and found a free download for her book "for your own good". So much of who I am now is who I am and was as a child. Obvious to some maybe but wasn't to me until late in life. When I saw the heading here about teenagers it triggered a response in me. I have teenage children but I find it more interesting to focus on myself as a teenager, but again, I cannot wholly focus on that unless I understand my childhood. I am a self-discovery journey that is very exciting and a fresh breathe of living now. more later
regards
matt