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Phlogiston



Number of posts: 640
Location: NOLA
Registration date: 2007-10-24

PostSubject: Re: Logic   Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:53 pm

vichy wrote:


While the question of just how logic and time are related is certainly valid, I think the idea that logic could be false or contradicted has inescapable structural problems. Logic literally is the defining feature of all knowledge.


I agree with this. I am more talking about the fact that deductive logic can only hold to an objective universe thru the means of inductive logic. Deductive logic doesn't have flaws but inductive logic has flaws. You must use induction to infer that when there is change that deduction is still valid. Thus deduction is only as valid as induction except in the world of concepts which exist outside of time.
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PostSubject: Re: Logic   Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:07 pm

I think there is a problem in this statement that is basically related to the relationship between induction and deduction.

Certain relationships or essential characteristics of a thing are logically necessary. So we can make logical arguments about economics because they rely upon the fact of economic actors, if someone changes in such a way as he is not an economizing actor (he gets shot and killed) then obviously he is no longer operating in that logical context. But all this means is that our application of deductive reasoning has the possibility of being invalid for a specific material case because we have failed to account for some change. But this, again, is simply true because we don't understand the actual 'rules' of material substances. If we did we could deduct through time with perfect clarity.

So the problem is not really with 'time', but the fact that we have imperfect knowledge of future times as we have imperfect knowledge with all material circumstances. We may be liable to error, but this is really because we have chosen a faulty illustration of certain deductively true principles. As an example, I might characterize a certain economic collapse as caused by error-cycles in the market, when in fact it was brought about by uncontrolled for destruction by an Earthquake. This example is rather obvious, I just wanted to make the role of empirical error as the ultimate problem clear. Deductive reasoning is perfect (insofar as it is correct that is), and can be universally valid to things that are real but we are not perfectly informed about the state of affairs which we are dealing with, and thus may misapply it.


Last edited by vichy on Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:08 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Fixed some illustrations)
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PostSubject: Re: Logic   Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:57 pm

Edit: Ah fuck it
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Phlogiston



Number of posts: 640
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PostSubject: Re: Logic   Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:33 pm

After Normaltims statement. I switched gears. Why can't I see anything wrong with this?

If and only if john then john lives
If john lives then john dies.
If john dies then there is no john.
John does live
there is john and there isn't john.
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PostSubject: Re: Logic   Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:47 pm

The answer is that actual discrete entities with their own properties were arranged and interacting into John at one point in time, and at a later point in time had entered a different State when they were not John.

At least that's what I think that's answer. Too many 'Johns' is making my ability to keep arguments distinct in my memory plummet.


Last edited by vichy on Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:50 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : So many Johns I forgot a sentence. Some sort of prostitution joke?)
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