very interesting and seemingly human thread on FDR, with a family member of Rod trying a sort of intervention. Interesting especially because it is about the question when to defoo or not (and interesting to see how Stef et al. behave in this thread) http://freedomainradio.com/board/forums/permalink/104614/104459/ShowThread.aspx#104459

That thread makes me ill. These people think they're so advanced, but they have absolutely zero empathy or concern for the families that get deFOOed. It's just like how they advocated torturing the cop who tasered that guy. So, torture is OK, as long as you are doing it to someone who deserves it. How is that different from the state? Stef has this fantasy of vengence for the transgressions of his parents against him. He can't continue to avange himself against his parents because he has already done his utmost by rejecting them and deFOOing, so he can get the vicarious thrill through the deFOOing of others. He has little concern as to the nature and severity of their crimes, and exactly zero empathy for the agony that the separation inflicts. In fact, it's clear he relishes it, he has the opportunity to admonish and humiliate them, to act as the heroic father-figure, defending the righteous against the barbaric septugenarians and middle class house wives who miss the young men they used to know and love. There is no curiosity, there is no compassion, just anger, projected anger.

Yes, it appears that Rod, along with many others, myself once included, has been taken in by a cult. Rod can't even speak for himself, Stef (plus UGGA and Mr.C) are doing it for him. It's so sad and infuriating. This is NOT what persoanl freedom and libertarianism is about - destroying relationships and tearing families apart. This cannot be easy for the FDR folks either, because they do have bonds of affection and love with their family, like it or not. Honesty and confronting the past, apologizing and healing, with or without therapy, is great, but who exactly will FDRers be buying Stef's books for at x-mas time if they have isolated themselves from their entire families? I think there are certain things that warrant deFOOing, like sexual molestation or severe physical abuse or neglect, but I don't think that's the case with Rod or the majority of FDR deFOOers.

And just a quick aside. Let's run through this cult thing again. We have an organization with a doctrinaire leader who brooks no dissent or criticism; it requires a tithe, and the more one pays the more access one gets to the leader; it now requires a uniform (previously, just a certain style of dress was recommended) and the purchase and distribution of materials (recruitment, essentially); it's most crucial tenets require ending contact with one's family and confessional participation in a conversation that deconstructs one's history in order to re-frame one's relationship with their family as one of victim and oppressor. It is as if all parents are, to Stef's mind, evil scheming villians, akin to Snidley Whiplash, and older siblings are their snickering enablers, ala Muttley. All his listeners are innocent little doe-eyed angels who require his knightly services (at the low, low price of ceaseless adoration and abject fealty) to rescue their "true selves" from oblivion. It's like a cartoon, and really lacks the depth and subtlety he claims for his his analysis.

Again, I did not and will not read the FDR thread, but I have some comments on some things you guys are saying here.

wilheldp wrote:

It's fine if you don't want to be your parent's best friend, but you at least owe them common courtesies because without them, you literally wouldn't be here today.

I don't think you owe your FOO common courtesies, or anything (no positive obligations - you never agreed to be conceived or raised), but I can see how it would very often be in your best interest to maintain the good aspects of those relationships, which can be done with common courtesies, etc.

Dylboz wrote:

These people think they're so advanced, but they have absolutely zero empathy or concern for the families that get deFOOed...There is no curiosity, there is no compassion, just anger, projected anger.

I agree, and think this is a display of critical hypocrisy on their part.

I am Rod's Sister-in-law Kari. I am looking for your assistance. It appears Rod lives and breathes Stefan Molyneux. I have read the material on the FDR website, I have looked at the videos on www.youtube.com. I am literally at a loss for words. I am not interested in having a philosophical debate with Stefan any longer. I simply want to talk to Rod. How can I get through to him?

Kari

Yes, I am married to his brother. I have known Rod for 4 years. Here is a link to the conversation with Stefan today on the FDR site: http://freedomainradio.com/board/forums/thread/96637.aspx This provides the background.

also, it is quite horrible to now have Stef talk to you rather than Rod (as you also wrote), and it's very easy to get caught up in debating him. I think it was excellent that you 'broke out off' that by saying you just wanted to talk to Rod and this seems to be the only way

Have you read our comments in this or any of the FDR related threads? You might be able to glean some of the ways which Stef and his followers (Rod is one of the "inner circle") behave in debate or conversation. Rod is avoiding you and his parents, because he has recast himslef as a victim of your manipulation and abuse. Arguing the specifics will likely fail, as will attacking Stef or FDR, calling it a cult or referencing his inability to think for (or establish an identity) himself. Try and avoid any confrontation, because this will ignite a defensive emotional conflagration. Read up on Stef's realtime relationship paradigm, and aproach your conversation with Rod by offering to adhere to it if he will engage with you. Don't be surprised if he doesn't, but just try and stay calm, ask a lot of questions, don't talk about yourself too much or try and get him to feel guilty by explaining how hurt the family. You can disarm him by not doing the things Stef has led him to believe you will do, don't justify these expectations, as it will reinforce his decision to deFOO.

This is all assuming you get to talk to him at all. Stef is obviously trying to pre-empt that and intercede, for fear of losing one of his biggest supporters and financial donors. Stef will encourage him not to talk to you, I think Rod is likely to agree, so you may have to be persistent, or resign yourself to losing him to this cult, at least for the time being. He may someday come around, many of us have, so be ready and try not to be too resentful if that day should come. I'm sorry for your loss, I just lost my brother to an accidental drug overdose, so I can relate. And welcome to Liberating Minds.

Rod’s parents got divorced after he graduated from high school and left for college. Unfortunately, it was a situation where his mother and father just did not get along very well. However, both have since remarried and are happier than ever. Rod has always struggled when it came to his career and relationships. I think he has struggled finding himself. However, as an adult you are responsible for your own decisions, etc. I can see how he enjoys being part of this FDR group in regards to the political debates, etc. However, I do not understand the need to disown your family? He just quit communicating to the family about a year ago. There was no explanation. His mother and father have sent emails, left voicemails, sent letters, etc. His mother tried to write letters to Rod explaining why the divorce was necessary so many years ago. However, in the last year he changed his phone number. I believe he might have moved however we are not sure. I did find the website for his new consulting business and called the number. It still works however he will not return the voicemails. He will talk to his cousin via telephone as long as she does not talk about family. So at least we still have that connection. He sent her Stefan’s book and tried to get her to buy into all of this. When she was not interested he was irritated and cut off communication for a short time but will communicate with her now. It is difficult when we are so far away. Both his mother and father would like to get on a plane and just come and see him however they do not know where he is. Our family would do whatever it would take to have a relationship again with Rod. I just have a hard time understanding all of this. At some point you grow up and move on with your own life. How long can you possibly hold on to the fact your parent’s divorce has ruined your life? I can say this because my parents are divorced. I cannot imagine cutting off my family because they chose to end their marriage. They are your family. Rod was online today and I know he saw the posting. The Rod I knew would never let anybody speak for him. He always has an opinion. Why now?

I editied a bit for clarity, but Conrad gets my point, and added to it, too. Thee is a thread or two here on Stef's debating techniques and double standards, you'd do well to check them out:

Short summary of 10 of Stef's debating techniques

Double Standards