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 Allow Me to Reintroduce Myself (Sayeth Jay-Z)

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PostSubject: Re: Allow Me to Reintroduce Myself (Sayeth Jay-Z)   Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:27 pm

I haven't read the article, which sounds interesting and I probably should read... BUT, the translation of the sentence is not

"(2) Is "cat" a word for cats?"

it's

"(2) Is "katten" a word for cats?"

otherwise you're not playing fair with logical rules.

- NonE
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Phlogiston



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PostSubject: Re: Allow Me to Reintroduce Myself (Sayeth Jay-Z)   Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:02 pm

Katten is not a permisable word in english. And even if it were the logic says you would have to answer no. This is just the same problem is it not?
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SteveL



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PostSubject: Re: Allow Me to Reintroduce Myself (Sayeth Jay-Z)   Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:53 am

Phlogiston wrote:
Katten is not a permisable word in english. And even if it were the logic says you would have to answer no. This is just the same problem is it not?

Perhaps the translation should be:

(2) Is "cat" a word for katten?

This assumes the listener Jane knows both languages, which is implied by Piet's question in the original Dutch--even though she is described as "English".

(I realize that this is not a perfect translation in the sense of literal word-for-word completeness; however, it does communicate Piet's intent--which is the objective of the exercise, no? I grant that a "perfect translation" [Fraassen's term] seems impossible.)

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Speaking of translations, the 1990s Canadian sketch comedy show The Kids in the Hall had a bit in which a barefoot man comes out of the rain into a shop to ask for shoes. The inhabitant of the shop replies in a long monolgue that he speaks no English and is simply repeating a phonetically-memorized passage. "I have no idea what I'm even saying right now".
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mike barskey



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PostSubject: Re: Allow Me to Reintroduce Myself (Sayeth Jay-Z)   Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:32 am

SteveL wrote:
Speaking of translations, the 1990s Canadian sketch comedy show The Kids in the Hall had a bit in which a barefoot man comes out of the rain into a shop to ask for shoes. The inhabitant of the shop replies in a long monolgue that he speaks no English and is simply repeating a phonetically-memorized passage. "I have no idea what I'm even saying right now".

Man, I hate to tangentize this thread, but The Kids In The Hall were hilarious, and the idea of this sketch sounds great. I'm laughing just thinking how it might have gone.

eddie2
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PostSubject: Re: Allow Me to Reintroduce Myself (Sayeth Jay-Z)   Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:06 am

By your own argument, isn't it incorrect to say that lying is not okay--and isn't this a moral claim?
It would be my position that what is 'okay' is specific to actual values and means. Thus lying would not be 'okay' if it failed to produce ends I valued. However, a person would be mistaken to say something is 'not good' or 'forbidden' to me despite the fact that it would achieve my values.

Since moral statements (to have any meaning) must exlicitly or implicitly claim their validity inside situations where a real clash between ends exists, moral statements must be false. If they only applied when interests did not clash, then there would be neither meaning nor worth to them. They would simply be positive statements about means/ends relationships.

By 'asking too much from reality' I believe that Joyce is saying that people want their preferences to be factual relationships between ends and means when in fact a difference in ends destroys any 'universality' altogether.

Furthermore, since value is unique to a specific individual one can not rationally critique ends. An 'end' is only good if someone values it, no external source can confer value onto something which is not valued.
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