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 UPB: A Rational Proof of Secular Ethics

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skidoo



Number of posts: 66
Registration date: 2008-08-04

PostSubject: UPB: A Rational Proof of Secular Ethics   Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:00 pm

Greetings! I noticed that y'all noticed that we noticed you! lol

I can't find the search function on this forum. Is my brain on the fritz? Surely there must be a search function somewhere?!

Anyway, apologies if this has already been covered. I suppose I could do a Google site search, but this is more fun. Very Happy

Question: Has Molyneux's book Universally Preferable Behaviour: A Rational Proof of Secular Ethics already been systematically critiqued? I don't want to re-invent the wheel. I'd love it if someone can point me to an example.

If it hasn't been thoroughly, er, commented upon, I figure I'll take up the task myself. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
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Phlogiston



Number of posts: 640
Location: NOLA
Registration date: 2007-10-24

PostSubject: Re: UPB: A Rational Proof of Secular Ethics   Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:13 pm

Theres a couple threads on it. In the index there is an entire FDR place the thread in it called the molynuex? project was the most systematic but never finished. It references the main site where a member bloged his entries. He grew tired of the project. Especially after being kicked off FDR for debating UPB.

I think there is a way to search this site but I don't know how. I just read whats current.
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Phlogiston



Number of posts: 640
Location: NOLA
Registration date: 2007-10-24

PostSubject: Re: UPB: A Rational Proof of Secular Ethics   Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:13 pm

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skidoo



Number of posts: 66
Registration date: 2008-08-04

PostSubject: Re: UPB: A Rational Proof of Secular Ethics   Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:01 pm

Thanks a bunch.
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Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: UPB: A Rational Proof of Secular Ethics   Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:18 pm

skidoo wrote:

I can't find the search function on this forum.


Search function??? Are you implying that some of our words of wisdom are perhaps less worthy of your study than others? Shame! There is nothing here but salient wisdom.

- NonE lol!
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skidoo



Number of posts: 66
Registration date: 2008-08-04

PostSubject: Re: UPB: A Rational Proof of Secular Ethics   Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:26 pm

Smile Ah, so presumptuous of me! So sorry! lol
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Phlogiston



Number of posts: 640
Location: NOLA
Registration date: 2007-10-24

PostSubject: Re: UPB: A Rational Proof of Secular Ethics   Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:55 pm

skidoo wrote:
Thanks a bunch.


You are welcome or not depending on the intensity of the flame wars that arise. LOL!

(I might enjoy them) I liked the clone wars or errr episode 2? 3? Star Wars.
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Bigus Dickus



Number of posts: 369
Location: Brazil
Registration date: 2008-06-05

PostSubject: Re: UPB: A Rational Proof of Secular Ethics   Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:27 am

You guys, what the hell? Is the enemy of our enemy our friend? Pay attention, this guy's an asshole.

So tell me skidoo, since someone threatening to leave a conversation also counts as "coercion" and therefore our lives are fraught with coercion, how about I jumpkick you in the balls if I don't appreciate the conversation? Afterall, it's just a difference in amount but not in kind, right? You can't say that the jumpkick to the balls sanctions any kind of defensive action if threatening to leave the conversation does not.
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skidoo



Number of posts: 66
Registration date: 2008-08-04

PostSubject: Re: UPB: A Rational Proof of Secular Ethics   Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:47 am

Bigus Dickus wrote:
You guys, what the hell? Is the enemy of our enemy our friend? Pay attention, this guy's an asshole.


Nice to meet you too. lol

Quote:
So tell me skidoo, since someone threatening to leave a conversation also counts as "coercion" and therefore our lives are fraught with coercion,...


Right....

Quote:
...how about I jumpkick you in the balls if I don't appreciate the conversation?


Erm, what? My balls are so large, they are admittedly pretty easy to locate once you're in the general vicinity, but this conversation is transpiring over the Intertubes, not in my office, so I submit your proposed feat (pardon the pun) is well nigh impossible.

Quote:
Afterall, it's just a difference in amount but not in kind, right?


In certain contexts, yes, that's right.

Quote:
You can't say that the jumpkick to the balls sanctions any kind of defensive action if threatening to leave the conversation does not.


Ahh, that's the slippery slope fallacy. Just as all religions are not cults, all coercion is not the threat of a jump-kick to the cojones. Nevertheless, I've never sanctioned any kind of coercion; I've just noted its inevitability whenever two people interact.

I encourage you to spend some more time on the SGU forums if you want to learn more about forensics and informal logic. Note that I'm not disparaging the resources available here, I'm just not as familiar with this group.
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Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: UPB: A Rational Proof of Secular Ethics   Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:48 am

skidoo wrote:
Just as all religions are not cults...


How in the world did you come up with THAT conclusion?

By the way, I normally view this site from the "Portal" page, and there at the very top of the main column (on the right) is a Google Special Search box.

- NonE
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skidoo



Number of posts: 66
Registration date: 2008-08-04

PostSubject: Re: UPB: A Rational Proof of Secular Ethics   Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:04 am

NonEntity wrote:
skidoo wrote:
Just as all religions are not cults...


How in the world did you come up with THAT conclusion?


Don't get me wrong. I'm not pro-religion or anything. But the term "cult" has pretty specific criteria, one of which, for example, is cutting off members from their families and loved ones. All religions are not cults.

But I was just using that as an example. I'm sure I could reach down into my magical skeptical grab bag and yank out a few dozen more, if you like. Smile

Quote:
By the way, I normally view this site from the "Portal" page, and there at the very top of the main column (on the right) is a Google Special Search box.


Ahh. Cool. Thanks for the tip.
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Bigus Dickus



Number of posts: 369
Location: Brazil
Registration date: 2008-06-05

PostSubject: Re: UPB: A Rational Proof of Secular Ethics   Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:05 am

So let me get this straight: between a threat to leave a conversation and a jumpkick to the balls there's only a gradation (and not a line), and at some point it's acceptable to defend yourself with physical force. Ok, who chooses what is that point? The person being "coerced" by the threat of being ignored? Or the person making the threat of leaving? Someone else?
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Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: UPB: A Rational Proof of Secular Ethics   Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:52 am

Someone else? Does that include me?

I must say that the above conversation makes NO SENSE whatsoever to me. I guess I'm missing a lot somewhere and so I should just keep my mouth shut. But rather than do anything as rational as that, let me instead ask you two to speak in English for a change and quit spashing piss all over my desktop - my fingers are starting to slip off the keys and it's getting smelly in here.

- NonE
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Bigus Dickus



Number of posts: 369
Location: Brazil
Registration date: 2008-06-05

PostSubject: Re: UPB: A Rational Proof of Secular Ethics   Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:15 am

Is my english bad? Please correct me if so. And hey, gimme a break, I haven't lived in the US for 17 years.
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Guest



PostSubject: Re: UPB: A Rational Proof of Secular Ethics   Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:22 am

Well, pardon me if you took that as an insult. It was not intended as such. It was simply my stating that the metaphors you are using are not connecting with any pictures in my head and thus all of your perfectly good English words are totally failing to communicate any coherent ideas to my brain. It could be simply that I have dropped in on the middle of a conversation and I need context for it to make sense. It could also be that you are trying so hard to be "cute" that you don't care if what you are saying communicates anything to anyone outside of your tiny circle. I don't know. All I know is whatever the hell it is that you are trying to say is not worth my time to get past all of your testosterone to try and decypher.

- NonE
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